I was in a new (to me) venue on Sunday night. It is a popular restaurant / pub.
When I walked in the place seemed very noisy, lyrics were unintelligible, and the bottom end seemed almost to roar at you.
Imagine a U-shaped tube winding around a bar, server area and enclosed kitchen. One long end of the tube was about six feet lower than the other. This was the restaurant, about 30’ x 45’. That end was also a little wider than the upper portion that was maybe 25 x 35’.
The live music was at the far end in the upper leg of the U. That upper area was the lounge/bar. That leg felt shorter because the washrooms were behind the make-shift stage area.
When I walked in, there was a (well known but will remain nameless) powered speaker on a stand. That top or the speaker was about 5 feet off the floor. Behind that there was a mixer with the usual maze of wires running into it.
I could tell that the performer was playing by his body language. I could tell he was singing because his lips were moving.
There was something of a wall of sound but nothing I could really make out as music.
A little background
I played at a fundraiser last weekend and met several performers. I put some of them on the stage with the L1®s and this was a new and happy experience for them. It turns out that they are making a concerted effort to invigorate their local music scene. They are in a community about 30 miles away from my main stomping grounds.
One of them, my new buddy Bob, invited me to join him at a new (to him) venue. So there I was a week later, there to be supportive.
I had emailed Bob for details and he said that there were would be a PA. So I brought my microphone stand (because it had all my usual wires strapped to it), my microphone, T1® and the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine power supply so that I could run all my inputs as usual, and run a single analog line out to the PA. Oh and a Guitar of course.
This was Bob’s gig and I was there as a guest. I had not wanted to push the L1® into this new situation (“I’m not coming unless I can play through my Bose”). But I had put my Model II in the car just in case because I have not played without my L1® in a very long time and I wasn’t looking forward to doing it that night.
Back to the show
When I arrived I walked around the whole place a couple of times trying to figure out what was going on with the sound. It was tough. Hard surfaces everywhere. Not a lot of discernible echo, but just a general roar. Some from the sound system, some from the general din of activity of people in a restaurant/pub.
The stage area was tiny; just a space where a couple of bar tables for four might have been. One side was the access to the washrooms. On the other side there was a fireplace then the speaker on a stick. In between; a guitar stand with three nice Guitars on it, a Fender Blues Junior and three microphone stands.
When Bob came off the stage he welcomed me warmly and we talked a bit.
He: Well are you ready to do a set?
Having listened to the room I just had to pop the question.
Me: I have my Bose system in the car. I can get it set up in about 3 minutes. Would that be okay with you?
Bob: If I had known you were bringing it I wouldn’t have brought this other stuff. Take your time. Do you need a hand?
The difference was profound, but not perfect.
It didn’t take me long to get set up and going. Judging by the thumbs up signs from here and there (lots of players there), people could hear and make out my vocals fine.
I had to take a lot of low end out of the Guitar, and the microphone.
As usual, I did a little tweaking throughout the set looking at peoples’ responses as my guide. At the end of the set I looked down at my T1® and was amazed to see that I had the levels set much higher than I would normally have them. Much higher than I had them for the fundraiser week before (2500 square feet - 125 people). This end of the U felt like about 850 square feet at most and it might have held 40 people.
Two other musical pals showed up and we put them on the stage. Same thing. The settings as I looked at them seemed really high, but the room just sucked up the sound. It was okay, we could hear them but I was surprised at the levels.
It was interesting to watch how the audience moved around. The listeners migrated to the front. The party folks worked their way round to the base of the U.
Later I was back on the stage with Bob through speaker on a stick, a mean harp player with a green bullet microphone through the Blues Junior. I was running through my L1® of course. I had to lay back hard not to overpower the other guys, but we had a lot of fun.
I still have the settings saved on the T1®. I’ll have to fire them up later today and see if I can figure out what was going on.
Anybody have experience with a room like this?
Hey ST - Not as extreme as yours but there is a room here in Savannah that is like that. Odd shape, differant levels, and hard surfaces. I have had to crank it and cut the low end to extemes to get a good sound. I still sounded better then the other players in this room but nothing to brag about. It is just a hard room and everyone that plays there excepts that it is not going to be good and they do the best they can. “Sometimes it just be that way”
Hey ST,
That is an example of a really interesting gig report, mentioning all the right things…the things that interest me as a player anyway.
I’ve been in those suck-up-the-sound, bassy rooms too…a gymmasium memory comes to me. At the end of the gig, all the remotes had all the bass rolled off and were cranked.
It’s interesting to follow your living, breathing music scene up there, as one place dries up another gets started. It inspires me to give that a try around here. Do something for the music, not the money.
As soon as I get together enough money, I’ll do that!
P
Hello,
Interesting account ST.
Yesterday, I played in a school gym – about 250 people. The people who hired me warned me that the acoustics were terrible and that everyone that had performed there had difficulty. So, I did a search of this forum and read that if one tilted the equipment back a bit, that the sound would not bounce off the back wall so badly. I took this advice, and used the rubber cap from the L1 base hole and tucked it under the amp/base, and put a couple of pieces of Velcro, less than 1/4", under the B1. It seemed to work somewhat, wasn’t an ideal sound however. But, after the gig two different people came to me and noted that it was the clearest sound to date in that building. I may have tilted too much however, as it was noted during one of my breaks that the sound was barely audible at the far end of the room but mid-room was acceptable.
Just wanted pass on this experience and thank whoever suggested the idea.
Ciao,
Jerry
I haven’t got anything helpful to add ST. I just want to say I love this gig report. You totally nailed the hired gun with and L1 experience.
Rick
Were you on any kind of stage or elevation different than the listeners?quote:Originally posted by Jerry T.:
...I did a search of this forum and read that if one tilted the equipment back a bit, that the sound would not bounce off the back wall so badly... I may have tilted too much however, as it was noted during one of my breaks that the sound was barely audible at the far end of the room but mid-room was acceptable...
Tilting the B1's will typically have little or no effect; isolating them from a "hollow" stage can have a great effect.
There are two different purposes for "tilting" the L1 column:
(1) Tilt to prevent a "slap-back" echo. If the column is parallel to a hard, flat surface (wall or glass), tilting the column a bit either way (up or down) can prevent the sound from bouncing off that surface directly back into the listeners.
(2) Tilt to direct the column's "wedge of sound" directly toward the listeners. The direction of tilt is determined by where the listeners' ears are with respect to the column.
- If the stage (and L1 column) is above most listeners, tilt the L1 forward (raise the back).
- If the audience seating is raked (goes up toward the back), tilt the L1 back (raise the front).
In general, the idea is to "point" (aim) the L1 at the center of the listening area (but not parallel to the back wall).
In thinking about this:
I would guess that the listeners were seated on the gym floor. Tilting back would contribute to the sound "going over the heads" of the people at the back -- particularly if you were also on any kind of elevation (stage).quote:...I played in a school gym – about 250 people. ... read that if one tilted the equipment back a bit, that the sound would not bounce off the back wall so badly... used the rubber cap from the L1 base hole and tucked it under the amp/base, ... it was noted during one of my breaks that the sound was barely audible at the far end of the room but mid-room was acceptable...
Thanks for reminding us of this tip!
quote:Originally posted by Jerry T.:
Hi Dan,
No stage - everyone, including me was on the gym floor. Actually, the organization had a better response than they had originally anticipated and the venue was moved to a very new gym. The original venue had pretty decent acoustics, but I was told well ahead of time that we were moving to the gym. Everyone seemed happy - folks with hearing aids had the most difficult time - I could see their reaction - I guess those little amps in the aids can't handle too much stimuli.
I have another question that I suppose should be the topic of a new discussion – ...
Ciao,
Jerry
Jerry T. Please see a new topic for your question:
T1® as a standalone mixer into non-Bose system - Jerry T.