Gig setup question

Hi all,

Have a gig coming up in a place I haven't been before, but a bandmate gave me an idea of the size of space we have and it's not huge.  

My plan is an L1 Model II w/B2 for the bass guitar on the right of the drums, and L1 Model II w/B1 on the left with mainly my guitar.   I'm using a Mackie DL1608 so the lead vocal will be a smidge panned right (1:00) and my vocal in my L1 MII at 11:00.  The lead vocalist will also play guitar on a few songs and I'll pan the guitars at 9:00 for mine and 3:00 for his.  

My concerns are:  First, that  we'll be too close in front of them to allow them to function properly, and second, should I use a second B2 and pan the bass up the middle?  I think the venue holds about 150-200. 

Attached is a pedestrian setup drawing.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

Hi scottcald,

If you're asking for advice here then this is what I would do.

I wouldn't try to run stereo. I'd run both L1's as mono systems.

I would pan your vocals and guitar to 1 L1 with B1 (hard pan 100% to one side).

I would pan lead vocal and bass to the second L1 with B2(hard pan 100% to the other side).

This gives you more headroom regarding the vocals and less chance of feedback because each vocal is only coming out of 1 loudspeaker. And one more thing, try to angle the microphones up or down so that they can't "see" the L1's. This also helps to minimize feedback risk.

I hope that helps. The L1's will be equally heard on stage and throughout the room.

Tony

 

 

Thanks for the quick reply, Tony.   It is helpful.  

What about the vocalist's guitar (only on a few songs)?  

Also, what's a minimum for us to be in front of it without essentially choking the sound from spreading out like it should?

Hi Scott,

scottcald posted:

Hi all,

Have a gig coming up in a place I haven't been before, but a bandmate gave me an idea of the size of space we have and it's not huge.  

Thanks for the picture.



My plan is an L1 Model II w/B2 for the bass guitar on the right of the drums, and L1 Model II w/B1 on the left with mainly my guitar.   I'm using a Mackie DL1608 so the lead vocal will be a smidge panned right (1:00) and my vocal in my L1 MII at 11:00.  The lead vocalist will also play guitar on a few songs and I'll pan the guitars at 9:00 for mine and 3:00 for his.  

Agreeing with Tony, I wouldn't pan the inputs across the L1®s. If these were conventional PA speakers you might, but you shouldn't need to with the L1®s. The wide horizontal dispersion and relatively low drop-off in volume over distance overcome the need to have the same sound coming from more than one loudspeaker. 

My concerns are:  First, that  we'll be too close in front of them to allow them to function properly,

If you are not right in front of an L1® (say, within a foot), the sound will diffract around your body.   For a room with 150 people, I'd like to have the L1® 5-8 feet behind me. I've worked with less and still been okay. 

and second, should I use a second B2 and pan the bass up the middle?  I think the venue holds about 150-200. 

There's not much to be gained, or rather you'll gain some in some parts of the room, and lose some in others. When you have bass frequencies coming from multiple sources there will be additive and subtractive effects at different places in the room.   If you really wanted to get some benefit from your second B2, you would get an A1 PackLite amp and run both B2s from the L1® on the right. To get the benefit, you want the B2s to be stacked or touching. But for a one-time gig with 150-200, I'd probably go with your current plan.

Attached is a pedestrian setup drawing.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

Thanks for the picture Scott. That helped.

ST

ST, thanks for your answers.  Would you place the other guitar in the same L1 as the bass in this setup?  Our lead vocalist will play on a few tunes. 

Hi Scott,

Yes, I would put the other guitar in the same L1® as the bass.

ST

Thanks, ST and Tony.  Very much appreciated.  

Hi Scott,

I would agree with everything that ST's said/suggested.

As you're using a third party mixer "a Mackie DL1608", and only having to pan your signals to one side or the other (without having to plug into different mixers as you would if using T1's), you can very quickly change the positioning of your vocals/instruments from one L1 to the other should it fit your requirements/preferences better.

I would, however keep to the idea that each vocal/instrument should only come from one L1. They should be heard equally well everywhere.

"should I use a second B2 and pan the bass up the middle"

I would think that with the punch that a B2 is capable of (in the setting) you should have enough to keep your bass player and the audience happy. You'd also have less expense (A1 B2) and less to transport, carry and set up. Outdoors I may well be thinking differently regarding the bass guitar and Sub(s).

You don't mention whether or not you'll be miking the Kick. If you do, I'd probably pan that to the L1 with the B2.

I very regularly suggest using an audio recorder when doing a sound check. If you have one, use it. That way you can hear whether or not the levels are OK in the mix (important for me as I always mix myself), and you hear the complete mix without your own voice in your head. You can even play it back through the system and walk around to see how it sounds. If you're playing with an acoustic drum kit but miking the Kick, you could even record straight out of the mixer (maybe muting the Kick for some of the recording so that drummer can play along to the recording whilst you walk around the location listening. If you sound check at gig volume you can then set the kick to fit in with everything else.). That way you would even be able to send the instruments/vocals to the L1's you'll be using. These are just thoughts and suggestions that may or may not be of help to you.

Scott, you started out here with: "Have a gig coming up in a place I haven't been before, but a bandmate gave me an idea of the size of space we have and it's not huge."

It'a always good (if possible) to get as much information about a location as you can before the day of the gig. Nothing can replace the experience of actually standing in the room and looking around. Sometimes it's not possible, but every small scrap of information can eventually help.

ST published an excerpt from an article in the Wiki which you might find interesting and helpful. It's called "Scouting the Venue" by Ken-at-Bose.

https://www.bosepro.community/...c/scouting-the-venue

I hope that this has been of some help and that the gig goes well for you, and please don't forget, we love to read gig reports here. Tell us about what went well, about what you had to do to overcome any problems which may have occurred etc. The main thing is to enjoy playing your music with a sound that's pleasing to your ears. I find that a good PA sound always inspires me to play better.

Tony

 

Hi Scott,

this is just something I'd meant to include in my last post regarding the use of more than one Sub. I'm going to give you a link to a Wiki article on the B1. Keep the B1's together. The same also applies to the B2 and any other Subs you may care to mention.

http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/inde...eep_the_B1s_Together

I hope this was of interest and maybe of some help (if not now, then maybe in the future).

Tony

 

Thanks again, Tony.  Wow, I don't think I'd seen that scouting doc on the old forum before.  Great and comprehensive, thanks!

Yes, I'd like to be able to get there beforehand, but I'm relying on the vocalist's info.  He set up the gig.  

My pedal has a looper function, so I'm going to try to record a verse of a song or just a repeating riff and have the other guys play while I meander and listen.  The recorder is a good idea though.   No plan to mic the kick, mainly because I think the drums will carry here and in the small space I think the stand will get run into.   

I definitely hear you about the good PA making you play better.  l'll try to put together a gig report afterward.  The gig isn't until next weekend.  

This will be the first gig I'll try to have the bass player only going through the L1. He typically goes through his bass amp and I think it's been the source of some muddiness in the sound at past gigs.  And I don't have control of it then either.  

Thanks again for all your info guys.