We have a keyboardist joining our rock lineup. She is new to the Bose approach and we have 3 x L1MkII and T1s. Before, each member had their own separate L1 & T1. Now we have added the keyboard into the guitarists L1 via the power stands analogue input - and the keyboardist has a T1.
Her volume was a problem, she could not control her dynamic range - always either too soft or too loud. Being used to having her own personal fold back wedge from a tradition PA setup she could not seem to adjust her own volume on the fly and proactively blend in - rather waiting to be told to turn up or down. Otherwise she was completely competent musician except for control of her dynamic range.
Is it harder for keyboards to vary their volume with playing technique instead of relying on the vol slider? Roland RD800.
Or is it bad habits from traditional PAs and relying on someone else to mix your volume into FOH while you have your own personal wedge so your own instrument is louder than the rest of the band?
I thought I patiently explained the L1 approach but she didn’t seem to adapt.
Any hints on how best to get this player up to speed with the Bose PA way of ensemble playing?
Valvenerd
Hi Valvenerd,
This is an interesting situation. Thanks for writing about it.
quote:Originally posted by valvenerd:
Is it harder for keyboards to vary their volume with playing technique instead of relying on the vol slider? Roland RD800.
I don’t think that it should be any harder for a keyboardist than an electric guitarist ( oh oh ). Okay, all kidding aside … when I got my L1® I was playing primarily electric guitar, and I struggled to find my place in the mix, too soft or too loud. And the band members had to tell me to turn up (most of the time) and turn down (rarely)
It took time for me to ‘get it’ but for me, the playing too softly thing was out of a deep desire NOT to be the cliche lead guitarist playing at 11 all the time.
quote:Originally posted by valvenerd:
Or is it bad habits from traditional PAs and relying on someone else to mix your volume into FOH while you have your own personal wedge so your own instrument is louder than the rest of the band?
I think that this can contribute to the problem. I remember the first time that I played in a situation with a dedicated sound-guy. He told me to just play and that he would take care of everything. Welcome to playing in a bubble.
quote:Originally posted by valvenerd:
I thought I patiently explained the L1 approach but she didn’t seem to adapt.
Any hints on how best to get this player up to speed with the Bose PA way of ensemble playing?
I’ve got a couple of links for you below but when I first read your message I thought back over my time performing and sharing the L1® with people. And thinking of your situation I want to ask: Does your keyboardist sing? I imagined all of you sitting around in a circle singing your vocal parts or even the instrumental parts - without amplification.
This would be like a vocal rehearsal with everyone learning their parts in the mix and coaching one another with respect to volume or anything else that comes up.
If you and I were just sitting around having this conversation, I’d tell you that most of the musicians I know started as acoustic musicians and that they had some early experience playing and singing unamplified. When I’ve had this problem if I could get someone back to that space in his/her head then things improved.
More info and ideas
The L1® approach relies on the premise that musicians can (learn to) mix themselves.
–?8T? Please click the picture for more details ?T8?–
The inventor of the L1®, Cliff-at-Bose plays keyboards and sings. He wrote
quote:Originally posted by Cliff-at-Bose:
Playing must progress from playing with a monitor mix to playing with the entire ensemble and producing one’s performance in the ensemble so that the mix is right. For instance, if you can hear your instrument above the level of the lead vocal, you’re playing too loud and must turn down. In playing soccer, beginners look at their feet and the ball. Expert players experience the entire game, head up, and have a full-spectrum view of the playing field. Playing music from a monitor mix is like the neophyte soccer player while playing within a full L1 system allows all players to hear the full mix, the game, like an expert soccer player. Most players will have to learn how to listen to everyone and play accordingly, possibly all over again. Thus, the player must play differently than he or she ever has. Fortunately, this draws on good but latent skills that every musician has. The comment that “musicians can’t mix themselves” is totally wrong. And anyway, it’s not mixing; it’s “playing together”. It’s Ensemble 101 in music school. Everyone knows how to do it. With the L1 system in place, such skills are quickly brought forward and enjoyed.
Source: Making a Living with the L1®
He also started this discussion (Who Sez Musicians can’t mix themselves? )
When Cliff started the discussion “Who Sez…” I wrote to him
quote:Originally posted by ST:
You know that I have always struggled with the notion that musicians can mix themselves. At least, I struggled with the idea that it just comes naturally.
Most of the musicians I have known have worked countless hours to be musicians. Some of the best make it look like it came naturally. I think that finding one’s place in the mix, in the song, in the music is something a musician can learn. For some that will come more easily than for others. Some will make it look easy, natural. No matter how it looks, I think that if one recognizes the need and is willing, the ability to mix oneself can be learned.
That was six years ago, and I still believe it. I think that it requires the an understanding of why it’s important, and a desire to do it.
I’m sure that you’ve seen this but you might want to take another look and invite your keyboardist to join you as watch. Playing better with the L1® System.
What do you think Valvenerd, can you use any of this?
Hi Valvenerd,
How did this all turn out?
ST
quote:How did it turn out?
Over the course of one other rehearsal before the gig things have improved and audio recording from the gig is evidence that the mix was right on the night.
I sorting it out by putting her keyboard into a separate L1 compact rather than her sharing a L1Mk11 with the guitarist. I think the Compact acted a bit like a placebo as she felt much better with it, even though to the rest of us it sounded no different.
I've shown her the Bose video and encouraged her to buy her own L1 and she's slowly coming around - and really enjoying herself.
Valvenerd
Hi Valvenerd,
Thanks for telling us how things turned out.
You know - this makes sense to me now that you mention that adding the Compact helped.
I missed it in your original post - that the keyboardist and guitarist were sharing an L1®. Maybe the guitar was masking the keyboard. If they were playing in the same range, then for monitoring that may have made it difficult for her to hear herself. Splitting the sounds so the keyboard (and her vocal) were separate using the Compact could offer a different perception for her even if this was not noticeable to the rest of you.
Whatever the reason (placebo or otherwise), I’m glad things have improved for you.
Cheers!