Hi, we have 3 Bose L1 Model II with B2 subs. Have been using them solely for all amplification for bass, drums, keys, guitar and vocals. It’s a 4 piece rock band. We love the idea of “all in one” systems.There is no external amps and the drums are all mic’d up as well. I bought this system to eliminate the need for mains, subs, bass amps, key amps and guitar amps. The instruments sound great, very happy with the results. We are ongetting mic feedback that triggers other vocal mic’s. The frequency is always consistent. It’s around 4K to 4.5K. We have tried to use the parametric, placement of mic’s and the distance of the system it’s self. We have been using these systems in 2 or 3’s depending on the gig.It seems that one vocal mic will trigger the others in the loop. The drums and drummers mic how ever does not feedback and can generally get louder than other mic’s used and never feedback. The concept was new 6 months ago but still can’t “ring out” the vocal mic’s. I have read other forum talks referring to feedback problems and have not found the best answer. To me it’s a constant frequency and not a volume problem. Looking for some help beside’s the usual"turn it down". I have been in the business for over 25 years and have lot’s of experience with much larger systems without any problems. I understand all functions of the Tone match mixer and really like it a lot but need some help with feedback.
Thanks
Hi, yes this is my sketch. Thanks for replying. I’m almost convinced it’s maybe a software issue in one the T1’s. It will blank screen for a few seconds over the course of the night but it will trigger the other systems. I take a vocal feed from the preamp out(TRS to balanced) feed to the external board (Allen and Heath mix wizard) and pan to the opposite side for fill, not for main volume.I still think it’s necessary for the vocal to be prominent from it’s position of stage to give a true representation. I have read where some have changed position of the system slightly off to the left or right of the person who is using it but it’s funny how I get far more gain out the external board(drummers vocal) than out of the T1.I will experiment a little more with mic’s and try directional mic’s in place of what we have now.
Thanks again
Hi BP
I use the L1 approach in much the same manner as you - with minor differences. We have two guitars instead of a keys. One of our guitars uses a mic’c cabinet instead of a direct device - and we only mic the kick drum.
Also - I have two Model 1 units and one model 2.
Assuming that the particular vocal mics you are using are not especially prone to induce feedback with the L1 approach:
Feedback should not be much of a problem with proper gain staging and proper stage placement of the open mics.
For the Model IIs - I’ve found that being directly in front of the line array works better than being off to the side some.
Gain staging is a pretty simple process - as described in the manual - and you really need to go through it each time you turn the system on - just to make sure.
http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/inde…Engine#Gain_Staging
Beyond that - judicious use of the noise gate and para eq features of the T1 should be the limit of what you need to look at.
Here is a link to the Par EQ troubleshooting wiki page. Scroll down to the controlling mic feedback section.
http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/inde…Q/_Solving_Problems
Lastly - dialing in a little bit of T1 noise gate on a vocal mic works as you’d expect.
Other folks may chime in and tell you that a particular brand of mic works better than another for controlling feedback. I can’t say anything other than the Blue encore series 100, 200 and 300 works well for our band.
Best of luck.
quote:Originally posted by Bass Player:
I take a vocal feed from the preamp out(TRS to balanced) feed to the external board (Allen and Heath mix wizard) and pan to the opposite side for fill, not for main volume.
This post showed up after I typed my response.
I am not using the system as you are - so my advice is probably not as applicable to your situation as I would have thought.
Best of luck, still.
Hey SunDog
Thanks for lending a hand up. I went back over it all again with the links you have sent and hearing about your experience has been a help. We gig again tonight and we will use 2 systems to try and eliminate some issues and try working a little more closely with para eq and noise gates.
I really like the system but it’s difficult when I have worked with bigger systems and been able to have lots of volume as clean as the Bose will do. Just don’t want to haul around all that stuff.
Again thanks for all your help
Bruce
Hey Sundog, I checked out some of your video’s posted on Reverbnation and you have the same feedback issue on some of the video’s. Mostly prevalent at the beginning of the songs. That is exactly wheat I am experiencing. Was the mic too “hot” or how have you addressed the problem.
Thanks again for your help.
Bruce
quote:Originally posted by Bass Player:
Hey Sundog, I checked out some of your video's posted on Reverbnation and you have the same feedback issue on some of the video's. Mostly prevalent at the beginning of the songs. That is exactly wheat I am experiencing. Was the mic too "hot" or how have you addressed the problem.
Thanks again for your help.
Bruce
The video that you are talking about was taken a fairly long time ago - when our drummer (at the time) was running the T1s. You can see me turn around and look at him when the squeal hits.
He's not our drummer any more - but has been known to check in on this forum from time to time. Maybe he can tell you what was going on with the T1s on that night.
The way we do things now - is I have my own T1 for the lead vocals and r. guitar. The bass player has one for his bass and b/u vocals. The drummer has the third to control his b/u vocals, the kick drum - and the lead guitar mic.
I like this way much better.
Hi Bass Player,
I’m not sure what type of stage or room you are experiencing your feedback problems in but you should be aware that the Bose system, especially the model II’s have a very wide dispersion and working in a narrow room, box type stage or alcove with the units behind you can lead to wall reflections reaching your open mic’s from different directions which can of course lead to feedback. This is accentuated by very ‘live’ rooms with lots of hard surfaces.
In these situations I always place the units up front as in conventional systems and use foldback monitors on stage. Noise gates and par eq can help as will a very directional mic with close proximity response such as the EV ND767a that I use.
Hope this was useful for you.
Hi Eric’sson
We play a lot of different rooms and outdoor events. You would be surprised as I always am how different objects cut or absorb sounds. In the fall to winter people wear long pants, long sleeved shirts and or jackets, this will absorb sound like playing in a room full couches. This is a big surprise playing the same club or outdoor event. The hard surface of brick, drywall, wood decks and ceilings play a big part.
Thanks for the advice, it’s much appreciated!
Cheers
I too am in a duo but I am running the L1 model 2 with the B2 with absolutely no feedback problems. the S1 as a monitor and sometimes it's just the L1. Maybe an upgrade to the model 2?
Thanks John. We do use a 4 channel tone match mixer fed into channel 2 of our L1 Compact. Is that what you're referring to by "maybe a tonematch mixer is in your future"?? I really can't justify an upgrade to a model 2. Any more suggestions for using the L1 Compact with monitors – without mic feedback?
Outside of putting the tower in front of you, which to me, you would lose sound on stage. There has to be a placement problem somewhere. How far are you from the L1? How far in front of you are the monitors? Is the feedback coming from the monitors or the tower?
Also ( this is just my opinion) I hate SM58's. I own a box of them. We switched to the Peavey dynamic mic that is rated the same as the SM58 and not only does it sound better, but it's hotter so the volume levels are lower than what we had set for the SM58's. I know it's the industry standard, but I like some other brands better with the BOSE.
Steve, do you have a picture or diagram of your typical stage set up?
I know you'll get tons of suggestions...let me add. I was getting feedback issues with my L1 1S and thought using my Beta 58 would help solve the issue but I did a "A" "B" test at a gig (Beta one set and SM58 the second set) and to my surprise the SM58 had less feedback.....Try different mic's......and you can also try to angle the tower slightly away from you. I turn my tower about 22 degrees away from me and I use 2 B1 base units....and one faces with the tower and the other I face more towards me....this works for most every application.
Doug
5 feet to the tower might be a little close. I typically am 8-12 feet away from the tower myself at an angle ( as far as the stage will allow).
I know some stages do allow that, but I get as far from the tower as possible at an angle and we only use one S1 between us.
We have had feedback with the L1 Compact as far back as 10'. Is the fact that we have two mics centered on the L1 an issue?
It seems like the feedback dissipates if we turn one or both of the monitors off completely or to a minimal (useless) volume.
I'm thinking the feedback originates from the monitors pointed back towards the tower (or mics ) - but it's difficult to tell where it originates from.