Relevance in the 21st Century - What are you playing these days?

tom-munch · September 20, 2008, 2:40pm

Cool, Wayne. Yes, I have more time on my hands right now too. I’m trying to get booked up & get busy though. I’m always happy to help here when I can.

I’m glad ST started this topic. It’s making me really think about why I play what I play.

I don’t make set lists unless I’m playing with players who want that. I pretty much fly with what I read in my audience. I pick my songs as a mix of what is requested & what I like. I can usually plug some of myself into a song to make it my own. It is hard to find new songs that I can connect with. I tend to head toward new folk & western music more than rock since those songs bear more resemblance to the songs of my youth. Sometimes I hear something that speaks to me.

The funny thing is that some of the requests I get from younger people are songs that THEY think I will do well after listening to me play. So sometimes it’s very valuable to listen to those requests.

Tom

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 4:43am

Hi John (JohnNell),

quote:
Originally posted by JohnNell:
quote:
Where do you find that music?

Hi ST!

Interestingly, I have recently stumbled onto an application called Pandora. For those not familiar with it, I’ll try to explain briefly. It’s an Internet program that lets you enter your favorite artists and/or style of music and then through the power of artificial intelligence of some kind and Internet searching facilities, it searches out other artists and songs which have similar characteristics and plays that music for you.

Thanks for this John. This sounds like an interesting service. I checked into it and unfortunately Pandora tracks who is using their site. Their service is not available to people in Canada.

quote:

quote:
Have you changed the content of your show lately?

No, we really haven’t changed much in the last decade or so. I doubt we will any time soon, either. Our music repertoire is composed of songs from the turn of the 20th century to today, which are in the acoustic folk arena, bluegrass, and old-tyme music genres. …

I play with different acts on a regular basis. They play different kinds of music and have different audiences. One of the reasons that it has been relatively easy move in and out of these different acts is, they are pretty stable, consistently playing the same tunes they always have. That’s okay — they are all crowd pleasers.

quote:

So there you go….relevance of music in the 21st century for me….

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this.

quote:

I’ll admit, since being involved with the L1 for the last couple of years, my technical and “listening” skills have expanded immensely.

I can not listen to amplified music any longer without critiquing it for balance, quality, sound, etc. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not… sometimes I can’t get past the problems I hear, to enjoy the music of a live performance. Being involved with the L1 has certainly raised my standards for a good musical performance and entertaining evening. Is that relevant?

I think it is relevant.

Except when I am providing the sound-reinforcement, I try really hard to hear the music and tune out the interference. Let me put that into context.

“Learning a second language can be affected by the patterns of the first language. This is referred to as linguistic interference.”
—— source: Learning Language (This is a really interesting topic and there are many parallels to our L1® experience).

I think that this issue affects the way some people approach playing through the L1®. I think it affects some of us after we have grown accustomed to the L1®.

But however much the L1® has affected the way I perceive music, the way that it has demanded more while leveraging what I give it has been well worth the little discomfort that hearing better brings.

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 5:40am

Hi Wayne (captbanjo)

quote:
Originally posted by captbanjo:
… I have the ability to remember lyrics…

Most of the people I accompany have huge (to me) repertoires. I can play along with them, knowing what I need to in the moment, and knowing virtually nothing of the experience once the song is over. I guess we are all wired a little differently.

quote:

I was interviewed recently by a Newport RI newspaper and I told the guy that I was concentrating on learning newer stuff, like Green Day. He said, “Well, they’re not that new anymore”. I laughed. He’s right.

I get this completely…

I just don’t know how people find new music any more. By the time I hear it, it’s not that new.

quote:

For me, a mostly solo performer who covers songs from bluegrass to rock and pop, it comes down to having to like a song and finding a way to identify with it most of the time. At the same time, I recognize that someone will want to hear American Pie or Sweet Caroline. Not my favorites to perform, but I’ve figured them out enough to get 'em done.

Most of the songs that I know I learned by playing with people who were doing covers. Sometimes that’s good and sometimes not so.

quote:

I write my own material and perform it. Doing the occasional song I don’t like so much keeps me employed and let’s me do my originals and the covers I like. When I do covers, I try to bring an original feel to the song while not reinventing it so much that people might get annoyed…

Many of the songs that really speak to me and that I love to share are relatively obscure. Obscure enough that people used to ask if I wrote them. I would take that as a wonderful compliment. These days, playing solo more, I can take a moment to introduce songs and tell people a little bit about the songwriter or the person who taught it to me.

I am a terrible mimic and so I don’t fare well with songs that have a strong signature sound. At least I don’t fare well if I try to mimic that signature sound.

quote:

I can’t sing some songs (like Delilah, ST) if I feel too uncomfortable with the age/experience thing. Someone once asked Johnny Cash how he could learn a modern tune and make it his own and he said something to the effect of, “Well, you just have to do it again and again until you own it”. That’s my approach.

Hey There Delilah was an experiment and is a huge stretch, as are 1234 and Whisper for the Choir. 1234 was really out there for me, but Feist is Canadian and that goes over big in some crowds. I get the impression from some of the older folks in my audience, that they like going with me to that place of innocent optimism. I also know someone who candidly tells me that I am foolish to be doing these songs, but that person NEVER goes out to hear live music.

quote:

Recently, I’ve forged into previously untapped (for me) territory and acquired a Taylor T5 electric. I’m trying to learn some Stray Cats rockabilly stuff and use it for some upbeat numbers where I add some bass and drum tracks (about 80 percent of what I do is solo acoustic, minus the tracks but they do liven up the right venue if need be).

It sounds like interesting and fun times for you Wayne.

I really have to get some serious play time with a T5. I was having a problem and it was real struggle to play standing up for a few years - especially with an acoustic. That’s getting better now and I am enjoying that whole different energy I have, especially vocally when standing. I still prefer to play the acoustic guitars sitting down so I can keep the neck really stable. It helps me to keep the rhythm. If I’m standing, I’m playing electric and there is a rhythm section.

quote:

I love talking about this stuff. Can you tell?

It shows.

I am sorry we didn’t have more time to talk in Ashland.

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 6:05am

Hi Dan, (dandyman)

quote:
Originally posted by dandyman:
…

On the other side of the coin, I recently played at a place where some of my friend’s kids came… I was talking to them afterwards and one guy said " Boy, I only recognized one or two of the songs you played tonite." I asked “Which ones?”… turns out the ones he recognized were covered by a couple of the groups getting airplay now…

In one of my forays to find find new music I came across a song being played by a lesser known Canadian alternative rocker. I thought that he had written it when he recorded it, 2006 I think. I really liked the song, and worked it into my repertoire. I was quite excited to add this contemporary song to the list.

I played it one night and a fellow my age came over and thanked me for reviving this tune and sharing it with the younger audience (the crowd that night). It turns out that this song Don’t Want to Know - John Martyn is perhaps 30 years old. John Martyn is 60 years old this week. If you want to explore his music, there is plenty of it on youtube, and all the lyrics are on his web site. I am working on a couple more of his tunes now. This one goes over well with all ages May You Never.

Maybe sharing the older music is still relevant in the 21st century.

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 6:40am

Hi Mike (Mike-in-Texas)

quote:
Originally posted by Mike in Texas:

A year or so ago I bought some new CD’s, trying to find a contemporary song or few, same intent as you now. I bought Mayer, Coldplay, couple of others I don’t recall right now. I don’t guess I found anything that struck me. I’m on a Coldplay internet list, for some reason.

I’ve been spending too much time on youtube lately. — guilty!

quote:

…

So, once every 3rd or 4th gig I get one request for Dave Matthews or somebody like that, obviously from a 20-something. I feel bad having to say “No”. I SHOULD learn at least some snippets from these newer artists - that would be better than my usual “Do I LOOK like I know any Dave Matthews?”

I couldn’t let this go unacknowledged.

quote:

If I could find new songs, that I like, that I feel I could do justice to as well as bring in a little of myself, I would. I wonder if a new song fitting that criteria would be a lot “like” the great older songs, which I already like and already know?

Great question.

At a recent show, there was a young fellow (I’ll call him Lance) who seemed to be really enjoying the music, and who had a player’s fascination with my instruments. During a break I learned that he works for a boutique-ish music store that tries to carry lesser known but worthy instruments from local luthiers. I haven’t been to that store in a decade. It’s a little out of my way and I haven’t really felt the need to get another acoustic Guitar since 1998.

To get to the point…
I went to the shop with an instrument I rarely play to get it appraised and to see what was new and interesting. The store owner offered my a decent price for the Guitar I brought in, so I looked around the store.

Lance, the fellow who was at the gig was there, and he energetically brought me all kinds of wonderful instruments to try.

After an hour or so it was obvious that everything I liked sounded very similar to the Guitars that I gig with now.

Lance notice this. Oddly, I had missed it. Having heard what I am playing now, Lance said, “We would still like to buy that Guitar you brought in, but I don’t think we have anything to sell you that is an improvement on what you’ve got”. The subtext was, “I have shown you lots of things but your tastes are your tastes, and the best we could do is to sell you something very similar to something you already have”.

So if I were to look at new material the way I looked at instruments that day, there would be no reason to reach forward into the present and make the investment in contemporary music.

I think the difference is, the audiences are not there to relate to the instruments. If we are lucky, they are there to relate to the music or maybe, as some have suggested, to relate to us the performers. If their musical palette has been conditioned by their version of contemporary music (as ours was by the music of “our” day), are we more relevant if we are playing music that sounds like it could have been written today?

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 6:46am

Hi Col. Andy

quote:
Originally posted by Col. Andy:
I’m pretty up front with my audience. I usually state early in the show that I take requests, but I don’t know anything recent.

As some of you may recall I have been computerizing my song/lyric list. I keep finding songs that I forgot that I knew! Searching the name of most any artist gives you all of their discography. I find myself saying “Oh, I know that one, and that one”. Of course some of these are not worthy of reviving, but it is keeping me pretty busy. I think my audience (especially regulars) are liking it.

Respect,
Col. Andy

I am finding that at least some of the regulars notice and appreciate that we keep working at the craft, refining, expanding, culling and rejuvenating the material.

Sounds like your audience is like that. Nice challenge.

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 6:54am

Hi jayare,

Thanks for sharing decision makers with us.

quote:
Originally posted by jayare:
Actually…I like a LOT of different styles,and I like to try my hand at everything…which can be a hassle when someone says…“Well,what kind of music do you play?”
—Since I generally make my own backing tracks…which can take anywhere from hours,to weeks…Some of my “decision makers” for incorporating a song (new or old)into my list are:
1–Has it been requested more than once?
2–Will the audience like it?
2–will I be able to pull it off,vocal-wise
and/or musically?
3–Am I going to be getting a LOT of
mileage out of this tune?
4–Will it work for a lot of different
audiences?
5–Will I enjoy playing it (notice this is last!)

I haven’t figured out how to incorporate backing tracks let alone make 'em

quote:

… which can take anywhere from hours,to weeks

but it takes me a ridiculously long time to learn a song. Nothing as short as hours, and weeks or months is closer to reality for me.

I’ll probably have to put more conscious thought into the selection criteria (just as you have done). So thanks for sharing that.

tom-munch · September 21, 2008, 3:45pm

Hey, ST. I heard some good new music on FarmAid last night.

Danielle Evin
The Elms
Jesse Lenat
Will Dailey
One Flew South
moe.

Tom

aj-casali · September 21, 2008, 4:46pm

Music is neither young or old…“it just is”. I refuse to let the “standards” die and always do at least 10 standards during the evening. In fact last night I did “moonglow” and the dance floor filled with mid 20’s age group along with middle aged and retirement aged guests. One young lady came over and said…“I just love that song”!. So I moduated into “Where or When” and I swear everyone was kissing on the dance floor! Ahhhhhhh…you guys don’t know what your missing if you dont’ do some middle of the road standard tunes. Why do you thing Rod Stwart, and Manilow, and Kenny Rogers and some of the “rockers” are not paying for studio time to record the standards? It’s because they want to prove that “they” can also sing the songs of the great arrangers! OH well…I can’t wait for the “fallout” from my comments here! LOL!

st-pro · September 21, 2008, 4:59pm

Hey Tom,

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Munch:

I’m like the rest of you - I get requests for newer stuff mostly play the old stuff. It’s hard for me to play music that I can’t connect with personally. (I’m trying to be kind here. There’s some decent stuff out there, but I’m too old to “get” most of it.)

Tom

This is to all of us who might have nodded as we read this (above).

It sounds to me like, within a nickel or a dime most of us are in the same time slot.
And I hate to admit it, but in the last ten years I’ve grumbled more than once, “I’m too old to …”

Sometimes in sad recognition that these old hands aren’t what they once might have been. Call it humility.
Sometimes in indignation when confronted with a situation where I should have been humble.
And inexcusably, when I dismissed the “foolishness of youth” in others.

This week I had occasion to ponder the life of a tireless soul. He worked at what he valued until he died. I marvelled just last year, as I watched him work for hours to mentor and inspire someone fifty years his junior as that person wrestled with issues peculiar to his (middle) age. At the time I wondered why he insisted that I be there.

As I was writing the points above, I remembered him. As I was writing the points above, I realized that I never heard him say, “I’m too old to…”

cody · March 14, 2009, 4:48am

From my experience it seems like everyone wants to hear what they loved in there most influential years and when they knew it all…Middle/High school.(roughly).I played at an Eagles club…60-80 crowd where I managed the music,and,Im 35,I ended up booking older performers to carry the show and I presented what I could within the performance they could relate to.They loved me, but I burnt up everything I had in a 45 min set of music prior to 1960.I would try something newer,they just wanted nothing they didnt know.Dont knock me,I was wise enough to know when to enlist the older musicians!Later I got gigs at bars with crowds of 30 to60 tops average age 40,and I let the older musicians sit in for a set, and the crowd was not digging it,only the older,I now play bars with crowds of all ages but seem to shine in the crowd of 21-35 age group.If anyone is interested I can reply with what the 21-35 crowd and even older goes nuts for (I know its regional).I put my baseball cap on and shave close,and the crowd thinks Im @25 I know thats relevant.You Have to relate to and be believable in your presentation.Ball cap because Im balding lol.Still,it seems college age still wants to hear what they heard in Middle /High school,with some songs transcending that.

st-pro · March 6, 2019, 7:37am

What music are you playing these days?

I have been trying to find music that means something to my audience today. That is, a different audience than I have known in the decades gone by.

Have you changed the content of your show lately?

How do you choose what to play?

Things that I have been doing lately:

Asking the staff and management at the places where I play for ideas.
Listening to music has been written lately. For me, that's anything written in the last five years.
Learning some of this new material, performing it and then talking to the audience (usually one-on-one) about it.
Wondering if it is better to be age appropriate and to stick to the music from my era, or press ahead at the risk of being the old guy playing new music.
Thinking about putting together another band to do ...?

What about you? How do you decide what to play? If you are incorporating contemporary music in your show, how are you doing that? Where do find that music?

Thanks for any input here.

oldghm · March 6, 2019, 5:05pm

I must have been busy on a day job when this thread was going back in 2008.

I quit playing for a couple of years back in the late 80's because I thought I had got too old. Then, somehow, I thought I was becoming relevant again, so I got back into it. I've slowed down the last couple of years because I think I'm getting too old again.

Last fall I went to a venue that I had played back in the 70's and 80's just to see who was playing and what they were doing. I had heard they were only booking young artists doing current / contemporary music.

My wife and I arrived early and ordered a drink and hors d'oeuvres before the first set.

A young couple came out, male guitarist / vocalist and a female vocalist. They began their set with 70's music and continued with the same period music throughout. We sat through the break, finished up the beer cheese and they started the second set with 70's music. In the time we were there they only did two songs that I don't do, and they were old.

I may be too old, but the music I do is not.

Whether I am gigging, or not, I am always listening, looking for something new that I can relate to. They are fewer and farther between lately. Sometimes I find old songs that I relate to now that I didn't relate to 20 or 25 years ago, and some that I used to relate to, I've grown out of.

Mainstream music, like always, is made by and marketed to youth. I never listen to top 40 type music anymore. It is not put on the radio for me, they're trying to reach a totally different demographic.

There are some young singer songwriter types that are pretty good, but truthfully, how long since we've had a Lightfoot, Kristofferson, Michael Martin Murphy, Neil Diamond, John Prine, John Denver, Dylan, James Taylor, Jerry Jeff Walker or Willie Nelson. You could sing all night and never do a song by another artist if you have those guys in your song list. I know I'm leaving out some of your favorites, but you get the idea. If there is a list of contemporary artists that can satisfy three generations in the same room, by all means, post it here.

In the early part of my music career, if one can call it that, I did about half and half popular music, and obscure artist's songs. As I developed a following back then, I found I could get by with more obscure music. A lot of that obscure music is now mainstream bar fodder. I had an ulterior motive. I have never been very good a copying others music note for note exactly. If I found a good song that wasn't popular I could do it my way and nobody knew the difference.

Awhile back I was at a street festival with a band playing. I was moving around trying to find a place where the sound was good when a big, bearded, tattooed guy reached out and put his hand on my arm, called my name and said, "Is that you?" I said, "Who's asking?" He said, "I'm Billy, Jim's son. "Well I hadn't seen Billy since he was 6 years old. Many years ago I would attend parties at his parents house and play music. (names changed to protect the innocent)

So Billy went on to tell me how it was those early experiences of hearing me that had influenced him to play music. He was currently playing bass in a band and the singer had wanted to learn Lightfoot's Sundown. He said that was the first time he realized I was not the writer of that song. That happened a lot back in the early 70's with Kris, Lightfoot, Jim Croce, and others. It happens occasionally now with songs from Justin Townes Earle, and as I write this I cannot think of another.

I try to start a gig with 3 or 4 songs that are of a different feel, tempo, subject matter, time period, and move on with what the audience tells me by their response. The one thing that is constant is, the music is mostly not from the 21st Century.

Are any on the following list from this century?

https://www.rollingstone.com/i...ters/#paul-mccartney

O..

jd11 · March 6, 2019, 8:14pm

Long time, no see.

Well, my music career appears to be on its last leg. I’ve tired of the whole routine involved with getting the gigs. The “following” etc… I walk in with my white whiskers and graying hair and am immediately at a disadvantage while dealing with some young’un who grew up on Nine Inch Nails (whoever they are.)

Most recently, I’ve been doing piano/vocal solo gigs after abandoning the guitar. I’ve also developed a love for Bluegrass. So, I’d do the latest bluegrass tunes with a piano (think Leon Russell w/Newgrass Revival) to keep myself happy.

To keep the audience happy, I’d throw in some of the old classics like Whiter Shade of Pale, CCR, Doobies, Lightfoot – often in a bluegrass style. Worked out pretty well, but in limited venues like Breweries or Yacht Club happy hours.

I have no interest in doing the melody-deficient songs of today and realize that I’m on borrowed time because of it. In the meantime, I give every gig 100% and play it like it may be my last one ever.

Unless I start doing old folk homes.

oldghm · March 6, 2019, 8:32pm

Love the term "Melody-deficient".