@CityFolk Thanks for explaining this discrepancy (potential?). When I got my 1002B (around a year ago I think) I read the manual very carefully and was convinced that the main out was TS. I didn't find any documentation mentioning TRS outs ... yet the Pro-Audio guy at my music store told me that I could use TRS. Which had me puzzled. I will pull the mixer out of the closet and try this out ... (I had to go back to the documentation just now which was a good refresher and has provoked me to try the mixer out after I charge my 9v batteries!).
Cheers,
There's an unintended discrepancy in the manual.
On page 6, the description of inputs/outputs say Main Outputs "Connect to the inputs of a power amp ... using 1/4" TS cables". Obviously assuming that the inputs of the power amp are unbalanced...which is NOT always the case.
On page 10, Specifications, they tell us that the outputs are "1/4" TRS jack, Electronically Balanced"
I just used my 1002B with 2 S1s at an outdoor retirement community gig today. Worked like a charm. TRS out to XLR into the master S1.
We had to play in 4 different locations throughout the facility during the 4 hours this morning so it was a somewhat physically tough gig to setup and tear down that many times, but worth it to elevate the spirits of the folks hunkered down there due to Covid19.
Having everything running on battery power was just so cool. We couldn’t have done it without the S1/1002B combo!
@troubador by all means give that 1002B a try. I think/hope you’ll like it
Bingo!! You're using the S1 Reverb which totally justifies your approach!
I ALWAYS use my S1 via a Mixer ... been a year now since i owned it. I get total control (centralized as @CityFolk put it) and terrific gain. So far never compulsorily needed a 100% battery powered rig. Having said that, I am on the lookout for a good *Native battery-powered Mixer* but with in-built fx. I'm very partial towards Yamaha (owning 4 of their Mixers). I'm not considering a Mixer powered via a Power Bank as my need isn't dire.
If any of you have any pointers, please do share.
I'm thinking of getting a Yamaha MG06X, which has 6 inputs (2 XLRs for microphones). However, was wondering since it has L and R for XLR outputs, how do I connect this to the Bose S1 Pro? Assuming that I will be connecting Rode M1 to one of the inputs on the MG06X.
@hypersonics if you just have the Rode mic as input, connect the mic to channel 1/L and connect the XLR main out L(eft) into channel 1 of the S1. Not sure if the 1/4” main out are balanced TRS type connections. If so, you could use either the XLR or the TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) 1/4” outputs. The essential point is to run a balanced connection from the mixer to the S1. It will give you a more solid signal and you can run a cable longer than 20 feet without losing signal strength.
If you input another mic or whatever into the 2/R channel, then run a cable from the R out into channel 2 of the S1.
To start, I’d turn the reverb off on the S1 (obviously if you use the mixer’s reverb), position the EQ Knobs on the S1 to flat (middle position) and ToneMatch to mic, and set volume to no more than 50% (12 o’clock) to start. (Feel free to turn it up more later after you experiment with the mixer volume levels. You may find you need to reduce the volume a bit on the S1.) Then make the rest of your EQ and volume adjustments on the mixer. Make any fine tuning EQ adjustments on the S1 after you’ve exhausted the adjustments on the mixer. Point being you want to go to one place to make your adjustments rather than fiddling back and forth. In addition, the mixer will probably be more accessible to you during a performance.
Experiment with the ToneMatch switch setting, trying it off as well to see what you like best in terms of the sound.
Also keep in mind the S1 automatically sets its EQ depending on the position it’s played in: on its side in monitor style, tilted back busking style, straight up, or on a speaker pole. Each position will have specific EQ characteristics which might affect what you’ve set on the mixer. Personally, we use the S1 on speaker pole as that gives us the best overall projection into a playing space (especially outdoors). But that is strictly subjective and based on your needs. Again, experiment a bit to find what works best for your situation.
The only thing I'd add is that I find that I add just a bit of treble boost and bass rolloff on my S1 channels in most situations when they're on stands. The "standard" EQ while on stands seems a bit boomy to me compared to their EQ when tilted back on the floor..
For smaller indoor gigs - like 50 people in a library, I liked the S1s on the floor on either side of us tilted back. Very clean and filled the space well with easy monitoring -- 2 vocals, 2 guitars...
Agreed Chet. I too do a slight rolloff of bass. Sometimes I boost the treble too but it can depend on the room or playing space. Always experiment and flavor to taste! ??
With Covid19, we haven’t done a “cozy” gig inside as yet. When we do, I’ll give the tilt back position a try. Without stands, that’ll be one less thing to carry around!
@hypersonics if you just have the Rode mic as input, connect the mic to channel 1/L and connect the XLR main out L(eft) into channel 1 of the S1. Not sure if the 1/4” main out are balanced TRS type connections. If so, you could use either the XLR or the TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) 1/4” outputs. The essential point is to run a balanced connection from the mixer to the S1. It will give you a more solid signal and you can run a cable longer than 20 feet without losing signal strength.
If you input another mic or whatever into the 2/R channel, then run a cable from the R out into channel 2 of the S1.
To start, I’d turn the reverb off on the S1 (obviously if you use the mixer’s reverb), position the EQ Knobs on the S1 to flat (middle position) and ToneMatch to mic, and set volume to no more than 50% (12 o’clock) to start. (Feel free to turn it up more later after you experiment with the mixer volume levels. You may find you need to reduce the volume a bit on the S1.) Then make the rest of your EQ and volume adjustments on the mixer. Make any fine tuning EQ adjustments on the S1 after you’ve exhausted the adjustments on the mixer. Point being you want to go to one place to make your adjustments rather than fiddling back and forth. In addition, the mixer will probably be more accessible to you during a performance.
Experiment with the ToneMatch switch setting, trying it off as well to see what you like best in terms of the sound.
Also keep in mind the S1 automatically sets its EQ depending on the position it’s played in: on its side in monitor style, tilted back busking style, straight up, or on a speaker pole. Each position will have specific EQ characteristics which might affect what you’ve set on the mixer. Personally, we use the S1 on speaker pole as that gives us the best overall projection into a playing space (especially outdoors). But that is strictly subjective and based on your needs. Again, experiment a bit to find what works best for your situation.
Do let us know what you come up with.
Thanks @CityFolk From what I see based on the images, the two XLR outs on the Yamaha MG06X says they are balanced outputs. Also, the specks indicate that the XLR outputs are balanced. So, I should able to connect a XLR from say, L or R on to the Bose S1 input 1 isn't?
Thanks @CityFolk From what I see based on the images, the two XLR outs on the Yamaha MG06X says they are balanced outputs. Also, the specks indicate that the XLR outputs are balanced. So, I should able to connect a XLR from say, L or R on to the Bose S1 input 1 isn't?
It's hard to tell from the Yamaha MG06X manual whether the 1/4" jacks are balanced outputs or not but the XLR outputs are for sure. So a regular balanced XLR cable ("microphone cable") from the mixer to the 2 channels of the S1 (as Cityfolk descibed) will be fine. You'll probably need to set the output at quite a low level (maybe one light or less) to make sure you don't overload the inputs on the S1.
@hypersonics FYI by definition XLR plugs are always balanced. Yes, XLR from left or right from the mixer will work fine into either XLR channels into the S1. Just to be clear, from what I gather from the mixer’s manual, if you plug a mic into the L channel, you would run a XLR cable from the main out L into channel 1 or 2 of the S1. The mixer’s channel 1/L is locked into main out L. Similarly, mixer channel 2/R is locked into main out R.
Chet brings up a good point on keeping the volume low on the S1 to start off with until you get a better idea on how hot a signal you’re getting out of the mixer. I doubt if you’ll ever need to go beyond 50% on the S1. Probably setting the volume to 10 or 11 o’clock is all you’ll need would be my guess.
BTW if you’re interested in learning more about balanced vs unbalanced input/output, check out the info on this Bose wiki site.
@hypersonics FYI by definition XLR plugs are always balanced. Yes, XLR from left or right from the mixer will work fine into either XLR channels into the S1. Just to be clear, from what I gather from the mixer’s manual, if you plug a mic into the L channel, you would run a XLR cable from the main out L into channel 1 or 2 of the S1. The mixer’s channel 1/L is locked into main out L. Similarly, mixer channel 2/R is locked into main out R.
Chet brings up a good point on keeping the volume low on the S1 to start off with until you get a better idea on how hot a signal you’re getting out of the mixer. I doubt if you’ll ever need to go beyond 50% on the S1. Probably setting the volume to 10 or 11 o’clock is all you’ll need would be my guess.
BTW if you’re interested in learning more about balanced vs unbalanced input/output, check out the info on this Bose wiki site.
Slight correction: This Yamaha mixer appears to be similar to my Mackie 402 - there's a switch (mono/stereo switch) between the 2 left-most channel faders that will either route Ch. 1 to left output only with Ch. 2 to the right output only OR allow you to mix the two channels as mono output into both the left and right outputs.
If you're going to route the mic to one channel of the S1 and the guitar to the other for separate processing in the S1 (as described by CityFolk), you'll want to make sure that switch is set to Stereo.
One other point related to Chet’s comment is something called gain staging. It’s how you setup your initial volume settings before clipping/distortion which means your over driving the signal.
Rather than get into the details here, please refer to this section on the S1 Bose wiki website. While you’re there scroll up and down through that site as you’ll find a lot of great additional info on the various features and functions of the S1 beyond what is in the manual.
@hypersonics sorry, one other thought since you are a new S1 user. Nothing you need to do immediately, but there have been some very important firmware updates that you should eventually install into your S1. Information on steps on how to do that are in that S1 wiki in referred to in my prior post. Get your mixer all setup first, then when you get a chance, do the firmware update.
Before you go to all the trouble of getting a mixer, please tell us how you will be using your S1 Pro.
In case I missed it in all the discussion above:
How many inputs do you need?
One microphone plus Bluetooth backing tracks or will there be more?
How large is the area you need to cover?
Have you tried connecting your Rode microphone to channel 1 with
The ToneMatch switch set to MIC
The volume turned all the way up
Can you sing loud enough to make the channel light turn red?
And when you do that do you still need the microphone to be louder?
Please note: When the channel light turns red, you have hit the maximum output of the S1 Pro. Putting a mixer in front of the S1 Pro does not change that.
SO
If you don't need more channels and you can hit red on the channel light, you probably don't need a mixer.
If you don't need more channels, and are open to suggestions try a microphone with higher sensitivity and preferably one with a hypercardioid or supercardioid polar pattern.
I'm from Australia and this is my very first post in this community.
I picked up a Bose S1 Pro two days back for my wife as we were looking for a starter PA system and, my wife is into vocal singing. The S1 Pro is now paired with a Rode M1 dynamic cardioid microphone on the first input.
My question is, for getting decent vocal sound how high the volume should be? Currently, we have set the volume knob to 70% and we hear good spacious vocals, but it's not loud. In contrast, when we play a backing track on the Bluetooth at a volume level of 50% for instance, the sound is louder than the vocals.
Is there a way to find out if the Rode M1 is picking the voice properly?
To underscore ST’s point, I have a Shure SM 58 Beta mic and have used it direct into the S1 with a good signal. This mic is also very feedback resistant.
Since we have an acoustic duo, 2 guitars/2 vocals and 2 S1s, we have the option to plug in individually to our own S1 if we want to have them near us or we can centralize all the control through a mixer that we position close to us for easy access to tweaking the mix and have the S1s out in front of us. Admittedly, our situation may be quite different from yours.
Which way is “better”? Like anything, it all depends on your circumstances and requirements. If you don’t have an immediate or anticipated need for more than just a single mic or the 3 inputs that the S1 offers, then using a mixer certainly may be overkill. However, your Rode mic is a bit anemic in its output. So getting a more powerful mic per the chart ST listed could be the easiest answer. Certainly makes your setup less complicated. ??
@hypersonics sorry, one other thought since you are a new S1 user. Nothing you need to do immediately, but there have been some very important firmware updates that you should eventually install into your S1. Information on steps on how to do that are in that S1 wiki in referred to in my prior post. Get your mixer all setup first, then when you get a chance, do the firmware update.
The first thing I did was to update the firmware. It took a while over the Bluetooth.
Before you go to all the trouble of getting a mixer, please tell us how you will be using your S1 Pro.
In case I missed it in all the discussion above:
How many inputs do you need?
One microphone plus Bluetooth backing tracks or will there be more?
How large is the area you need to cover?
Have you tried connecting your Rode microphone to channel 1 with
The ToneMatch switch set to MIC
The volume turned all the way up
Can you sing loud enough to make the channel light turn red?
And when you do that do you still need the microphone to be louder?
Please note: When the channel light turns red, you have hit the maximum output of the S1 Pro. Putting a mixer in front of the S1 Pro does not change that.
SO
If you don't need more channels and you can hit red on the channel light, you probably don't need a mixer.
If you don't need more channels, and are open to suggestions try a microphone with higher sensitivity and preferably one with a hypercardioid or supercardioid polar pattern.
Thanks @ST for the list of microphones with their sensitivity. All I need currently is just one microphone channel along with a backing track (on Bluetooth).
Also, keeping the volume at 70% I'm not seeing the channel light hit red. I made a visit to the music store where I purchased the Bose S1 and I was advised not to get a mixer unless I have a few musical instruments to mix and use it. The technician mentioned that if the microphone is connected to the mixer and subsequently connected to Bose S1, a slight increase in gain on the mixer can simply kill the speaker.
Which way is “better”? Like anything, it all depends on your circumstances and requirements. If you don’t have an immediate or anticipated need for more than just a single mic or the 3 inputs that the S1 offers, then using a mixer certainly may be overkill. However, your Rode mic is a bit anemic in its output. So getting a more powerful mic per the chart ST listed could be the easiest answer. Certainly makes your setup less complicated. ??
I think I will refrain from the mixer for the time being The setup at this stage is mainly for practice sessions at home and possibly will look at better sensitivity microphones down the line.
I pulled my 1002B out today and connected an XLR to ch.1 and a guitar patch cord (TS) to ch.2. Headphones to the phone jack.
Then I read the manual section on gain staging. That was the critical part of this trial!
When I was able to play through my headphones and get the volume I wanted ... I connected a TRS cable from the R-out to ch.1 on my S1. I set the S1 vol. between 7 and 8 o'clock, turned off EQ and reverb, and was in business. (Mixer pan set to hard-right. Minor tweaking on the mixer EQ.)
I found that the mixer leaves me a lot of headroom on the S1. I was in my living room so I didn't try increasing the volume of the S1. But since I was below the 9 o'clock mark of the S1 I know there's plenty of room to push the volume up if required. On the mixer the VU meter was occasionally going to the yellow.
I was pleasantly surprised, overall. Thank you for giving me the push to try this out. Very pleased with the result and now all I need is for our busking season to open. Unfortunately it looks like it won't be open until at least September.
The setup at this stage is mainly for practice sessions at home and possibly will look at better sensitivity microphones down the line.