A Couple of Questions

Portable PA
1

Hi everybody,

 

Long time fan, first time caller. Pardon a lengthy post.

 

I'm an acoustic singer-songwriter in the Midwest, and for the past five months or so I've been using an L1 Compact. It's the best speaker system I've ever used. My singing and my 'touch' are both very quiet, and I'm a real purist about tone, so the dispersion characteristics of the speaker and its natural, open sound have been a real blessing for me.

 

For context I do a lot of winery, patio, restaurant/bar/brewery/distillery type gigs and weddings. I play a lot of 30's-70's stuff--jazz, country, blues, folk etc, and my own songs. I also play in a trio (tenor sax upright bass), and for those gigs I've run guitar vox into channel two via my mixer, the sax into the mic input, and our bass player uses his amp. 

 

For my 'mixer' I use a Grace Design Felix blender pre-amp, which has selectable mic/line DI outs. I run a blended signal (guit vox) out at line level into the second channel of the Compact and control the volume with the Compact. My volume range has been from 11:00 to 1:00, depending on the gig--I don't think I've ever exceeded 1:00, it gets a little harsh in front of me (the 'behind' sound) at that point.

 

For the Felix, Channel 1 is an XLR input and gives me phantom, channel 2 is for my guitar (pick-up or mic'd, depending on gig). The blend knob gives me the 'mix'. The open and transparent character of the Felix pairs beautifully with the Compact and it's so clear/natural that I don't have a need for effects. I use an Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina (LDC, cardioid) for my vocal mic. I usually put the Compact a couple feet in front of me and to the right, although I have been able to put it behind me and mostly avoid feedback due to my body blocking the mic.

 

With all of that, I'm thinking of upgrading to a Model II with a B1 module. While I'm really happy with the Compact, and it has handled 98% of my gigs with aplomb, I feel like the Model II would give me total assurance and obviously be better for the trio. I'll still keep the Compact because it's so useful and frankly I love it, but having a differentiation of tools seems like a huge advantage. 

(I'll get an extra B1 for our trio gigs; I don't want to lug around a B2).

 

My questions are:

 

1.) For the Model II, I know the input is a line-level 1/4" with a trim control. For my setup, using my Felix as a mixer, would I be able to use the trim control as the 'volume' knob in the same way that I do with my Compact currently?

 

2.) The one area where my Compact has struggled for me is outdoor / open-air settings. This is more a function of my own quietness rather than a shortcoming of the speaker. I feel like a Model II would obliterate this issue, since it could get out farther at a lower volume relative to me. Does that seem reasonable?

 

3.) For the trio I'll get the T8s for us to handle the inputs and my bass player will ditch his amp (thank God). So far we've either had the Compact behind us or I've had wedges for my sax player and bassist (EV ZXA1s, the little 8's). Amazingly I've been able to use my Compact behind me with a condenser mic when I have enough space (~8ft) with barely any issues. My body has essentially blocked the mic. I'm not sure if I can get away with the same thing with a Model II though--any experiences here from folks? 

 

4.) While the advantages of buying new are clear, if I can find a good deal on a used system (that's in sufficient condition) I'd be willing to go that route. Have any of us acquired these used? Was it worth the gamble?

 

That's all I can think of at the moment. Again, please pardon the length of my post and I appreciate any and all thoughts and advice on the above! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

Hi OregonDonor,

 

I've been waiting for someone with a better technical understanding to respond to your questions with a technical explanation. Hasn't happened yet so I speak in general terms.

 

In most all cases there will be an optimal setting of the Model II input based on the output of what you are feeding into it. Fortunately, or unfortunately as the case may be, gain staging is, or can be, hard for some to grasp and there are always variables that are still in the workable range.

 

I think most would advise not to use the input trim as a volume control. If you are going to purchase the T8, You might be better off using it all the time, even with your Felix in front of it. Might seem more complicated but once you get a workable setup it will give you a more convenient component to make on the fly adjustment than the floor mounted Felix or Model II base.

 

All that being said, there is no harm in giving your idea a try. If it works for you I will be the last to argue with your results.

 

As for your second question, yes, technically the Model II will reach farther with less volume relative to your playing position, but you likely won't play with less volume. I think most of us have a certain minimum we are comfortable with and you likely will subconsciously want to be at that minimum, or above, regardless of the system in use.

 

You may find it more difficult to work with the Ear Trumpet mic with the Model II, especially if you put the array behind you.

 

Let us know how things work out. 

 

O..

 

 

3

Thank you for the response Oldghm!

 

I went to Guitar Center today and tested out their L1s and L2 floor models. They had a B2 out so I switched it to the minus setting. My Felix successfully interfaced with both units. I started with the trim control set to about 9:00 and I dialed up the guitar and vocals separately from there; got my guitar up to about noon and my vocal mic between 10 and 10:30. These levels were nice and adequate. When I brought the trim control up to about 11:00 the Edwina started squealing, even with no gain (phantom was on), so it appears that there might be a hard limit to the extent that it could double as a volume control for me with this setup. On the other hand the room was less than ideal for testing--lots of objects and reflective walls--so it could have been that. 

 

With the trim control set to 10 or 10:30, the Felix has a clean boost, and I was able to toggle the volume more there too before feedback.

 

Given that the speaker was adjacent to the wall and I was facing it about eight feet to the right, these results may end up being much better in practice. Amazingly I could run the Edwina facing the speaker! My body was blocking the mic and I had no feedback issues.

 

The sound itself from both units was amazing--it's the sound I know from the Compact but on steroids. The L1 was 'punchier', while the L2 was more organic (it had a 'softer' quality). 

 

The jury's still out but the testing I did was promising. I love my Felix and the simplicity of this analog signal chain and that's why I'm reluctant to relinquish it. So we'll see!

4

I'm not sure if this is kosher--pardon me if it's not--but I thought I'd 'bump' this in the hopes of getting some more thoughts and perspectives, specifically on the trim-control-as-master-volume question.  I can't see logically why it wouldn't be feasible, but I also don't know how the gain staging of the Model 1/2s are configured compared to the line input of the Compact.

 

 

5

Hi OregonDonor,

 

Check the info at this link.

 

https://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?title=L1®_Model_II#Analog_Input

 

O..