I am very interested in trying your new PAS to replace our current traditional PA system. We are a 3-piece acoustic group, consiting of different stringed instruments (typically guitar, dobro, and mandolin… with occasional switching), and all of us sing through Sure headset mikes. All instruments currently run through pre-amps. We play a variety of traditional and contempory folk and bluegrass in small venues, with the occasional outside gig.
We realize that a PAS for each musician is the optimum way to go. However, we may ease into it one at a time. Based on the description of our group above, could you recommend the best way to hook up all three of us to one PAS (we have a stereo mixing board), then the best way to hook us up to two PAS’s. We hope to get to three someday.
Thanks
We just got back from the Folk Alliance Conference in San Diego, where dozens of bands like yours used the systems. Oh…my…gosh, were these players good. I was floored by the artistic quality. And the inventiveness of the music was off the charts. This music is really happening. We worked with a bunch of unbelievable trios, all playing new music. Perhaps you know of some of them as they all tour regularly and record. Sons of the Never Wrong, Mad Agnes, and We’re About Nine come to mind.
I’m not very enthusiastic about all of you using one system. I know it will sound better than anything you’ve used before because of the radiation pattern of the Cylindrical Radiator™ speaker, but the difference in clarity when you separate at least some of the voices and instruments is big, and I hate to give that up. To use one, you would simply feed all the vocal mics and instrument pickups into a small mixer. Pan all the vocals Left, and all the instruments Right. Feed Left Output of the mixer to CH1 input on the PS1 power stand, and Right Output to CH2. Use one of the vocal mic presets on CH1 and one of the acoustic instrument presets on CH2. Done.
With two Cylindrical Radiator speakers, you can probably do away with the mixer, which is nice. You’d have to precisely describe to me the instruments and I could confirm this for you. But you would put two players into one speaker, and one player into the other. The key is one player goes to one speaker ONLY. Do not mix as this creates sonic mud and ugly phase cancellations.
Let us know what you decide to do and if you need any further help. Tell us what you hear when you plug in.
You were right! We just practiced with one PAS and a mixer set up as you suggested and it was great… much better than our traditional PA. Now we are considering getting a second PAS. As you requested, we are providing more precise descriptions of our instruments and vocals below with hope that you can suggest the best hook-up arrangement (with or without a mixer) using two PAS’s. Thanks for your help… can’t wait to try the second one.
Audience Left:
Male Vocals: Shure WH20 wireless dyamic headset microphone
Mandolin: Weber Yellowstone, Pick up the World underbridge pickup (polymer,non-piezo), 90% of songs.
Guitar: Martin D28, Pick up the World #54 dual pickup (polymer, non-piezo), 10% of songs.
Switch off both instruments through Baggs Para acoustic DI preamp & Planet Waves circuit breaker instrument cord.
Audience Middle:
Female Vocals: Shure WH20 wireless dyamic headset microphone
Guitar: Baggs dual source (mini-mic & pickup) with Baggs Mixpro blender
Dobro: McIntyre feather pickup through Fishman Pro-Eq preamp
Audience Right:
Male Vocals: Shure WH20 wireless dyamic headset microphone
Guitar: Martin HD28 (95% of songs), McIntyre feather pickup through Baggs Gigpro preamp
Misc.(5% of songs): Harmonica (through headset mic), open-back banjo (through Shure SM57 microphone), mandolin (same as above for Audience Left)
Hey Ken,
I’m the audience left guy above on the mando, and I am really impressed with the PAS system. We had a practice on Tuesday, and the sound was fantastic. Saturday night we played out at a community center with a traditional, well set up triple system that took up the better part of a van, and all I could think was “all this wire, all this set-up work, and I still can’t hear what’s going on.” We’re playing our first gig out with the PAS system this upcoming weekend, and I’m really looking forward to it. Heck, I can hardly wait for practice this week!
Here’s our question…In a trio with 2 PAS systems, with two guitars and a mando and 3 people on separate and mixed vocals going the better part of the time, is it best to separate the guitars from one another (we sit mando/ guitar/ guitar on stage, and would plug the middle persons guitar/vocal in with the mando/vocal, leaving the other guitar to his own PAS (lucky dog)).
Whaddya think?
Jerry
P.S. Thanks for your help. You guys do a great job with this site and customer support in general, and we appreciate it.
I think you’ve got the right idea. It’s better to separate instruments that have similar “voices,” like two guitarists. That will help you and your audience to better distinguish who’s playing what.
Also, please advise the guitar players that they should not be surprised when they double each other (that is play the exact same chord, with the same strumming pattern) that they cannot hear the other player very well.
Stating the obvious here, when your system is just a bit louder and you play the same thing on the same instrument, your ears tend to loose track of the other player unless you’re really trying.
In my band I can hear the other guitar player clearly when I move around on the neck or in my picking pattern but when we strum together, I really hear just me. It’s really got me thinking about adding more flavor to many of our songs.
Lee and Steve,
Thanks for the feedback. We’re “all ears” and we appreciate it. We have noticed a lot more detail in the mix with the PAS and I think the guitarists styles’ and instruments are different enough that they still distinguishably stand out, even practicing on one PAS. But I agree, it DOES make you listen more to your mix and what nuances you can add to make it more interesting (now that we and the audience can actually hear what we’re playing!)
Thanks again!
Jerry
quote:
But I agree, it DOES make you listen more to your mix and what nuances you can add to make it more interesting (now that we and the audience can actually hear what we're playing!)
Man I hear that. I had a few boo boo notes on Friday night and I look up and my bandmates are smiling at me. Likewise for them. Back to the woodshed on some of those "oh yeah, we've done that one a million times" songs.
Oh, and does anyone know how the brain can get lost in a three chord wonder song? G-D-C from start to finish and I get lost somewhere int the middle ... maybe I'm watching the people who are right up in front dancing, having a good time. I'm not used to them being so close, that' for sure.
Our recently-revived all-acoustic trio needs an amplification system. We budgeted for the Peavey Escort 2000 but are intrigued by the new Bose PAS. We currently have 2 Peavey 580 dynamic mikes (000 acoustic guitar and banjo or D28 plus harmony vocals into one mike and upright acoustic bass plus vocal into the other) and need to know if we can make do in the beginning with these 2 plugged into ONE PAS, although would like separate mikes for the instruments (via Mixing board?). Can only afford ONE PAS at this time, however. If this will not suffice, may be forced to buy only the Peavey system for now…Can we add one PAS to the Peavey (which has its own mixing system). Would that work?
…Lots of questions; “on the bubble”
Hey Ross,
Yes the system is scalable. You can buy one and add the others as you go. This will work just fine and you’ll get many of the benefits that are described on the web site.
As you do more gigs and more cash starts flowing in please give the second and third system a try. Your ears will thank you because by having each instrument coming from its own point in space, the clarity level goes way up due to the way our ears work (the cocktail party effect from the web site).
Please come on back if you have any more questions.
Steve,
Many thanks! I’ll go back to the group to discuss this and hope we’ll be trying out the PAS, soon!
Ross
I hope you will give it a try. Right now www.bose.com is offering a 45-day risk free trial. We pay to ship it to you and if you don’t like it, we’ll pay to ship it back.
Give it a try and decide for yourself.
Hey Ross,
Our acoustic trio (we sort of started this last thread) played through a single system last night for our first time out, and people were really impressed with the sound. I am anxious to get a second system in the band, but even one PAS sounds better than anything we’ve used before, and the audience really liked it as well.
Our second system awaits my fellow bandmate “building a deck” for his wife, but for now, one is still a lot better than out traditional system, and the set up is a piece of cake. We’re using the mixer approach with opposite panning of instruments and vocals.
Give it a shot, you won’t go back!
Hope this helps,
Jerry
Jerry,
Thanks! Do you think the mixer on our Peavey Escort 2000 will work?
Ross
Hey Ross,
I’m not familiar with the Peavy mixer, but I can tell you that we are just using a simple Behringer six channel, panning mikes left into channel 1 with the SM58 preset, and panning instruments right into channel two straight up (with the 00 preset) and it’s working very well. This allows you to control everything from the remote and/or the mixer.
Bottom line, I think any general mixing board will work. Having said that, I think when we get TWO PAS units on board in the next couple of months it’s going to go from sounding really good to awesome. We had some mighty fine yet unsolicited crowd feedback about people being able to “pick out every instrument and voice” when we played, accompanied by “reasonable volume with good clarity”. We heard much of the same sentiments echoed on this board, which seem to be generally right on.
There is simply no reason not to try, and once you do you’ll sell all your other stuff!
Hope this helps, and have fun!
Jerry
Jerry and, by copy to Steve and the Bose folks:
Many thanks! We’ll give it a try, soon!
Ross
Great discussion on using the Bose system. This is my first time in the discussion. I have an acoustic trio as well with the same instrumentation; mando, guitar, guitar. On top of that I add sax, penny whistle, and flute to select tunes.
We currently have two L1 systems with the mando input to one, one of the guitars in the other and the the second guitar, vocal mics, and wind instrument mics going to a mixer and then to both L1’s. I’m going to try some of the set-up suggestions already posted and see what happens.
Thanks to all!
Hi Kenny-O,
I have posted your Sketch and started a new discussion for you.
Please see: Trio with two L1 Model Is - Kenny-O.
Thanks.
ST,
Thanks for your help with our set-up. We played a gig last Friday and everything sounded great!
What are your thoughts on placing two systems right next to each other when the stage area is limiting?
Hi Kenny,
Glad that worked out for you.
quote:What are your thoughts on placing two systems right next to each other when the stage area is limiting?
Sure, been there, done that. It was fine.