I’m gonna give you the full 1000 on that one ST, thanks for taking the time and posting.
Wow…awesome post, ST. Thank you!
In addition to the B2 being about 3" taller, it looks like from your overhead shot that the B2 is also 2-3" longer than the two B1s as well, is that right?
Hi Shawn,
Here are the sizes from taken from the Model 1S Owners’ Guide available here: L1® Model 1S
B1 bass module: 15’‘H x 10¼’‘W x 17¾’‘D ?
(38.0 cm x 26.0 cm x 45.0 cm)
25.1 lb ?
(11.4 kg)
B2 bass module: 23.4’‘H x 13.31’‘W x 18.9’'D?
(59.4 cm x 33.8 cm x 48 cm)
45 lb?
(20.41 kg)
So the difference is
18.90" - 17.75" or 1.15"
Thanks, ST!
quote:So the difference is
18.90" - 17.75" or 1.15"
So ST are you going to change your avatar to a B2?
Cheers!
Brian
Hi Folks,
Drumr asked me in the Biting B2 discussion if you can rotate the logo.
Here’s the answer.
–?8T? Please click the picture for more details ?T8?–
Hi Brian,
quote:Originally posted by BrianBeveridge:quote:So the difference is
18.90" - 17.75" or 1.15"
So ST are you going to change your avatar to a B2?
Cheers!
Brian
Probably not.
Playing solo (acoustic oriented gigs) I’ve been just fine with a single B1 and only rarely have I brought 2 B1s for that kind of show.
Playing in a band (typically electric guitar), the rhythm section holds down the low end. I personally haven’t needed more low end because of where I sit in the mix.
I hope that the Drummer and Bassist in the band will be using B2s.
I could see using the B2 when I’m doing my full-blown solo show running my VG-99 rig (Virtual Guitar) because for that I often have the bottom two strings set as bass guitar strings.
But for two thirds of my shows… even though I am very very impressed with the B2, I’ll probably stick to a single B1.
Hi Litesnsirens
I’m answering here in the B2 Live discussion because the other thread is for the folks who haven’t got theirs yet.
Here’s a beauty shot. I just ran this set up full out on my Model II. You can’t see it in the picture, but the PackLite is sitting on top.
quote:
Bose did a nice job here because if you get all the feet to match up on the B1s, they fit together. Look at the Packlite and the spot just below the Bose Logo. The B1 feet are interlocked (despite the appearance of a gap)
The two B1s nestle between the feet of the B2.
Left side:
Right side:
Nothing moves or rattles.
As for the sound, well I don’t have two B2s so I can’t comment on that.
Two B1s and a B2:
For playing prererecorded music, they sound different when you change the switch on the B2. I think that the switch position is changing the EQ on the Model II Power Stand Bass Line Out, and that would make sense because the likely scenario is that if you were using the Bass Line Out, you would be running through a PackLite to another B2.
The good news is that I could not get the A1 and two B1s to break up or distort no matter how loud I ran the system. Too much bass in any situation makes me feel queasy, and after 30 minutes of high volum testing I’m sitting here in absolute silence trying to recover. Lunch is going to be delayed today.
Various things I tried:
- B2 alone, no additional B1s
Sounds great
Different switch positions make a difference, but for live music, I think I’ll stick to “Normal” or “-” if I find that I’m getting too much low end to work nicely with my acoustic guitar or big body jazz boxes.
Below this point are results for B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp. - B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to
For me, likely only for pre-recorded club music - B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to Normal with ToneMatch® Preset 57
Fine for low volume prerecorded music. - B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to Normal with ToneMatch® Preset 58
Fine but bordering on too much bass emphasis on me. - B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to with ToneMatch® Preset 57
Okay, but I preferred it with the switch in the Normal position. - B2 plus 2 B1s powered by a PackLite Amp, Switch to with ToneMatch® Preset 58
I ran this flat out full volume with so heavy pre-recorded music and I found the bass overwhelming.
Litesnsirens, you’ve got enough gear to try out these combinations. What do you think?
Hey ST, if I understand properly, the first thing you tried is B2 alone and the rest of the list is B2 with 2 B1s. I believe I have it right, and I would have to say based on what you’ve posted that those are, in general, the same assessments that I have made using only the B2. So I’m guessing that it’s probably very similar in terms of bass EQ but maybe just a little more???
Perhaps, although the B1s are susceptible to the EQ curve as decided by the B2 switch, the same logic applies in terms of plugging something into the bass line out of the powerstand in terms of reducing the output to compensate and maintain the integrity of the overall EQ.
I will definitely be doing some testing with my gear, in terms of loading up the B1s and B2s but I think I will wait until I have my second B2 (hopefully soon). I’d like to compare 2 B2s to 1 B2 and to a B2 and 2 B1s. I hope that isn’t getting to B-confusing.
I still have 4 B1s but when the other B2 arrives at Long and McQuade I will be sitting with 2 B2s 2 B1s and a packlite. So I will be able to try a bunch of combinations.
Like you, I was quite concerned about how the extra bass would react on acoustic guitar patches using my GR-55 guitar synth. And even to some extent my electric guitar patches. But even with the B2 in plus position, which is what we set it on for our show on Friday night, I was able get great tone on everything using the zEQ. So I no longer have any fears about not owning any B1s. It’s really going to come down to how many B2s will I end up owning or needing. Well I guess you never voiced any concerns but did mention that you would most likely just use a single B1. And I have to agree for single guitar, electric or acoustic and vocals a single B1 still fits the bill. BUT, as I mentioned somewhere on this forum, we all thought the vocals sounded better through the B2, and with the use of some EQ my acoustic patches sounded great, probably the best they’ve sounded since I got the GR-55.
So at this point, for me, if it’s worth taking the L1 it’s worth taking the B2. I found it quite easy to dial good sound with the B2 even in the most extreme plus mode. Maybe there will be EQ adjustments moving forward, maybe not, but I think I will get a more consistent sound going with one or the other rather than back and forth.
I actually really found that the EQ between 1, 2 or 4 B1s did in fact remain very consistent just as Bose claimed, but there is a huge difference between any number of B1’s and B2s. That said in minus mode I could still get very close to the B1 sound.
Anyway, I will do the testing when the second B2 arrives and I will report my impressions.
Hi Litesnsirens,
quote:Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
Hey ST, if I understand properly, the first thing you tried is B2 alone and the rest of the list is B2 with 2 B1s.
You’ve got it.
Thanks for drawing that ambiguity to my attention. I’ve modified my post above to make what was going on more apparent.
quote:Originally posted by musicnmotion:
I had a chance to compare the B2 with the B1 on a couple of occasions since it's release. Unfortunately, the bass I heard from the B2 module sounded muddier than the B1 setup. No doubt there was more bass, but it wasn't as smooth sounding as the same setup with 2 B1s.
In my experience what people perceive as "mud" is the frequency range way down in the low double-digits. I like to say that in Hollywood, the only time they go to 20 Hz is when dinosaurs are stomping around.
"Punch" is about 120 Hz or so. Try rolling off the bass EQ just slightly and see what it does. A little tweak can make a big difference.
All this is highly subjective, of course, and results depend on your choice of material. A lot of current club/dance music leans heavily on those low frequencies.
Andrew, that is exactly what I had to do. We were actually wanting more thump/punch on the kick drum. Once the B2 arrived we had more than we wanted. But it’s nice to have it on tap, it’s very easy with the T1 to dial in a great sound. It was quite interesting, as I listened and thought it was very cool to feel and hear, there was so much bottom end that the kick kind of sounded almost like an old TR808, just rolling the bass down a bit and the dust started coming off the kick and it started to shine. Then a bit of a tweak on the middle and treble to get the hats and cymbals sounding good and the whole kit was balanced and sounded amazing.
Hi Drumr Pete,
Did I miss it?
What do you think: Does the B2 perform like four B1s?
quote:Originally posted by Drumr:
The B2 showed up today, and i tried it out for a bit over lunch hour.
I really wanted to write a report about the B2 and my E-drums, but really can not at this point.
As Litesnsirens said before, “it’s a game changer”, and that it is.
But I will say that the strangest thing I experienced was my vocal thru an OM5 on the B2 “Normal” setting.
It took me aback, and reminded me of the sound of my voice in the 70s thru our old Altec Voice of the Theaters!
Big sounding, bassier, bordering on hollow, but not in a bad way mostly.
Something about larger speaker diameters I’m guessing, like I could hear the bigger speaker.
I really can’t sort out what I heard, yet.
This is going to take some adjustment.
I figured this would be the thread to post this in since I was doing some testing. I stopped by Long and McQuade today to pick up my second B2. I took both B2s and the two B1s that I still have left into my basement for a little testing. I just used some tunes off my iPhone for testing as I just wanted to see the difference between a single B2 and two of them on the same tower. And also to see if the switch on the second B2 would have any effect on the sound and finally, it was my intention to see how it sounded with a B2 and two B1s and if I would have the same opinion as ST. I never got to the final test, I think the first test sort of made it redundant and at the very least unimportant to me. I can rely, and actually quite agree with ST’s test of the same set up.
So, first B2 goes into the powerstand and second one from the bass output to the packlite and to the second B2 (exactly as you would if hooking up 4 B1s). As I expected, the switch on the second B2 does nothing. The switch activates mechanics inside the power stand and I assume it does so only through neutrik connection. I have to admit as I sit here typing it didn’t occur to me to see what would happen if I unplugged the neutrik cable so that the only B2 would be the one connected through the packlite. It’s safe to say though that the power stand can only be in one mode at a time so Neutrik overrides bass line out to say the very least.
I guess being a bit of a scatter brain tonight my first test showed (wrongly, as you will see) a big difference between one and two B2s. That’s because as the music was playing I simply powered down the packlite and wow big bass drop-off. Of course as most of you have probably caught right away, “yes dummy, but you still have a cable plugged into the bass line out so with the packlite turned off you’re cutting 6db from the remaining B2.” And you all of course are right. At least give me points for coming on here and admitting that.
So for the second test, turn packlite back on start the music, try to get a real good feel for the sound and the feeling of the bottom end and then I stepped in, pulled the 1/4" balanced cable out of the bass line out on the powerstand, and got back to my previous position to try to determine if I could feel or hear any difference. And the verdict? NOT REALLY !! With the 1/4" connection dropping all bass by 6db it was pretty much imperceivable to me. So, I didn’t think there was much reason for me to try the same test with the 2 B1’s in place of the second B2. Reasons as follows; if plugging a second B2 into the bass line out give no perceivable difference due to the 6db drop, and IMHO the B2 not only outperforms 2 B1s but also 4 B1s (to my ear in both normal and plus mode) then my guess is that plugging them in will drop the bass by 6 db but 2 B1s combo won’t be able to make up the same difference that a second B2 can. So in theory a single B2 would put out more bass than a B2 and 2 B1’s. Damn, now that I’m talking myself through this I’m starting to feel like I have to test it out. But the theory stands to reason doesn’t it? I’m probably going to go test it out… I mean now I just gotta know.
I would have thought before remembering the 6db drop that 4 X 10" speakers would push more air than 2 X 10", and they will, unless you purposely cut the volume of all the units to make up for what they would have done. So at this point I don’t see any advantage to owning 4 B2s and I won’t go that route now that I have tested it. I think now that we are dealing with this monster called “B2”, in order to notice any headroom difference you would have to get the L1 up to levels that are probably even beyond the capabilities of the stick itself and if you use them behind you in a band situation probably at levels that would cause feedback. Or put in different terms, unless you are trying to use your system beyond what the L1 is spec’d for (ie;audiences of 500 people) and likely far beyond, you wouldn’t be able to push the unit to a point where the extra B2 would offer more headroom. Again a bit of reasoning, I have in the past used a couple of Yorkville 720P subs for outdoor shows in front of big crowds. They use 2X10" speakers each and they are rated at 700 watts each, but I don’t think they outperform the B2 plugged into the power stand. They are twice as heavy though, so there’s that. So I’m thinking if they can do the job for a big outdoor concert then 2 B2s should perform equally as well. So what level do you need to get to that requires 4, especially when you would probably have to come close to diming everything to have the extra B2s help.
So as far as agreeing with ST’s assessment of his test, I agreed with it before trying this because as I wrote above it was pretty much my findings with a single B2. While it remains to be seen whether the addition of 2 B1s actually reduces the bass as compared to the B2 on it’s own, I think that as far as uses for the different settings they are going to follow pretty closely that of a single B2.
Anyway, that’s my thoughts on it so far. I’m probably going to go do the other testing just to prove a theory.
You have to admit, although it doesn’t make much sonic difference 2 B2s stacked together looks pretty menacing.
I think I did a little damage to my ears doing this testing, my right ear is aching a bit now. However, it’s all in the name of science. So a little further testing.
First off the plus, normal, minus switches only work through the neutrik connection into the power stand, so if anyone had any plans of using these with another system, you probably can, you just won’t get use of the switch.
Secondly I did the test with the single B2 and 2 B1s run off the packlite through the single system. It actually does sound pretty good. I did notice an increase in bass when unplugging the 1/4" balanced cable between the packlite and the power stand. B2 on it’s own does offer a little more bass, however it wasn’t a hugely significant difference and in fact some people might actually prefer the slightly more controlled bass tone but in my opinion that’s a lot to go through just to achieve something that could do simply by making some minor adjustments on the tone match. I mean you aren’t getting any more volume from the set up so just turn down the bass a db or two and you’ll be there. I did the test in both normal and plus modes with the same findings. My expectation would be with the B2 in minus mode there would be less to no difference.
So those are my findings anyway, no more testing the ears can’t take it. I will either sell off the packlite and remaining B1s or trade them in on something else completely, 2 B2s is as much as I will ever need, it’ll be quicker to set up with less connections to make and I really can’t wait to get to the next gig to try one on each system.
Hi all,
fantastic info on this thread.Thanks for everyone’s efforts.
I would like to know if any Bass Guitarists have used the B2 with an L1II. I would really like to hear from guys who play live and have a good idea about what’s required on medium size stages in rooms anywhere up to 100-400 people. I would just run a line out of the T1 to the desk for the house pa sound, so my primary concern is stage sound. I have used the L1II as a bass rig for gigs, but our keyboard player said 2 B1s lacked the punch needed. I was reasonable happy, as was my back! But I’ve got a feeling the B2 will deliver that ‘punch’ So Bassists out there,( I spotted an avatar with a MM Bongo ) can you help. btw On stage I play a Sandberg California VT5 bass over a Roland D-Bass 2x10 normally. Thanks. John
[With apologies to John Morrell]
ST, Lites, et al,
After a bit more testing, I find too that adding a Packlite & 2-B1s to my Model II with a B2 on the Neutrik output, added no perceivable benefit.
However, I truly am enjoying the sound of the B2 in my studio at Normal setting.
Preferable to the 2-B1s, and has much more bass when used in ’ ’ mode, but is too much for the room.
Hi All,
It’s really exciting to hear about all the B2 testing. I wanted to clarify a few things on the technical side.
First, when using multiple B2s (with the Model II system), the B2 connected to the powerstand dictates the bass behavior. Meaning the position of this B2 switch controls the overall system bass level.
With repect to second B2 (connected via the Bass Line Out/Packlite), we decided to split the difference and provide users with 3dB of additional bass output and 3db of additional bass headroom. 3dB is substantial so when using a second B2 there should be a nocticable increase in overall bass level.
Hope this helps.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Craig
Hi Craig,
Thank you for this. It really helps me to understand what I was hearing while testing.
quote:Originally posted by Craig-at-Bose:
With repect to second B2 (connected via the Bass Line Out/Packlite), we decided to split the difference and provide users with 3dB of additional bass output and 3db of additional bass headroom. 3dB is substantial so when using a second B2 there should be a nocticable increase in overall bass level.
Is this irrespective of the position of the B2 switch?
If so - does that mean that this also affects people with 4 B1s and a PackLite the same way (going from 2 to 4 B1s)?
Hmm, maybe I have to get it up to a significantly higher volume to notice the difference? I had levels up to a level that my right ear was hurting when I finished my testing. I noticed no perceivable difference doing the testing as posted above. Maybe I would have noticed a difference in a smaller sized room at lower levels?? I agree that 3db is substantial but in some ways
But now that I am to understand that technically there is a difference and a difference in headroom could you explain a little further? Just in terms of what that extra bass headroom means to a user. There are different schools in regards to how significant 3db is i.e.; it takes double the power to increase 3db but on the other hand it takes a 3 db increase to to create a perceivable difference to the human ear.
I guess the bottom line is I just want to know beyond my own findings what advantage I could expect. B2 plus packlite is getting close to $1000. A little over if you live somewhere where there’s sales tax. So the question becomes is 3 db (the bare minimum threshold of noticeable perception) of increase on frequencies below 200hz worth the extra $1000. I realize this is a subjective thing but what I don’t really understand is if the headroom is somehow increased overall across the whole frequency spectrum for some scientific reason that I am not aware of? or are we simply talking 3 db at 200hz and under?