Litesnsirens, correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you did your ear-stressing test indoors. For me, the real difference between a single B1 and a second B1 is outdoors. Indoors I find the second B1 to be overkill (on a Model 1, not on a Model 2). But outdoors, that second B1 allows me to go louder without distortion, and I think that’s what you want to test with your B2. As long as you’re inside, I would imagine that anyone’s ears would reach a saturation point before being able to appreciate the extra headroom.
In a 300-500 seat venue (bar, etc), for E-Drums, is 1 B2 actually able to replace 4 B1a? I’m trying to get my head around this possibility, and how it is possible. With 4 B1s, you also add another power amp.
My drummer is really wanting to make setup easier by just bringing a single B2. Saves a lot of time on your knees, plugging things in.
We tried it at a small 100 seat venue last night and the drums sounded fine, BUT, we were not even close to pushing the systems.
So my question remains… For up to 500 seat venue, can a B2 replace 4 B1s?
Out the door to my first Model 1S gig. Back to you later.
Have a great night!
quote:Originally posted by ST:
Out the door to my first Model 1S gig. Back to you later.
"Break a leg, ST!"
Well I have been listening, for a little over an hour now, to my new B2 (connected to my L1 Model II) and some iPhone music. AWESOME! WOW!
Some background on my purchase:
Not that I felt I needed any more “thump” to my bass sounds than what my ole’ Kay upright already provides, but I kept reading comments some folks have made about “this is a game changer”. I got wrapped up in the excitement, went by GC today, and picked up a B2. I have been using two (2) B1 modules since the early days. I always felt that was enough bass for my upright bass sound. We’re an acoustic band, not heavy metal or rock-n-roll, so, our volume doesn’t get that loud. 2 B1s have given me that “full” sound that I like. However, we have done our fair share of “outdoor” gigs, where I have always wondered what it might be like to have four (4) B1s.
So, when I read about the “switch” on the B2, I was interested in hearing what affect it would really have in the lower register. I now have first-hand experience! As others have said, in the “-” position, it is similar to having a single B1. In the “Normal” setting, it sounds as good to me as 2 B1s. In the " " position, well I can’t compare it to anything, because I have never been able to play my upright with 4 B1 modules thru a L1 System. But, I have to imagine, it must be like having a Packlite and two additional B1s! It’s FULLER, RICHER, and can be LOUD (if you need it)!
With the B2 switch in the " " position, I like the FULLNESS it provides, even at low volumes. I played some acoustic iPhone music (guitar, mandolin, fiddle, banjo, bass) using my T1 on the DJ Music - Low Volume preset, and it seemed to me the music had more “presence” or “robustness” to it; like it was right in front of you “LIVE”! Not sure whether that was the tracks I was playing, or a result of the B2, but I can honestly say I heard something different than using my regular 2 B1 bass modules, and it sounded great!
So, my first (limited) impressions are good, at least here in the house. The real test will come tomorrow, when we play an outdoor wedding reception. More later…
Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts John, have fun tomorrow!!
I just spoke to a buddy of mine who is a solo performer with backing tracks. He hadn’t heard of the B2 yet, so I’m bringing one to his gig tonight to see what he thinks. Of course I’ll have to bring a power stand since his wont be updated.
Hi John,
Glad to see you are trying out the B2.
Your comments are in line with what I’ve found, judging only by my in-the-house tests.
When I agreed with the “game changer” remarks, that came from a change in overall tone I hear from the B2.
For me, even on NORMAL setting, it has a bigger sound to me, like a bigger speaker, which they are, at 10".
The B2 sounded bigger than 2-B1s on the Normal setting, nothing huge, but it was a change that I felt.
I have actually gone to using the “-” setting in my home, am anxious to get out and try it live.
Looking forward to the gig report, have a good gig tonight!
Hey Folks,
Check this out:
Model 1S Live Results
quote:Originally posted by JohnNell:quote:Originally posted by ST:
Out the door to my first Model 1S gig. Back to you later.
“Break a leg, ST!”
Thanks John.
Hi folks.
I’ve used the B2s at several gigs now with a 2 piece classic rock band consisting of guitar/voc, bass/voc, and e-drums/voc. Prior to the B2, I used 2xB1 and the drummer used 4XB1 (including packlite amp)
I am a retired sound person and bass player/vocalist from back in the Yamaha PM1000, BGW 500, and JBL 4560 with 2441 horns days, so I’ve heard a number of sound systems through the years.
The B2 works AT LEAST as well as advertised. The low (-) position switch sounds like 1 B1, Normal sound like 2 B1s and High ( ) sounds like 4 B1s. I (bass player/Voc) used it at Normal, the drummer/Voc used it at .
The room was filled with pleasing low end tone, well defined notes, and plenty of that elusive thing called ‘thump’. My drummer and spent much less time setting up and tearing down. We had to drop about 3 or 5 DB (can’t remember) of the Bass zEQ from the T1 mic channels to sound ‘normal’, but that is fine with us. Subtractive EQ results in better sound than additive - at least for me. We also dropped a few DB of the Bass zEQ for the drummers v-drum channel. Contrary to what a person might thing, this actually increased the effectiveness and bottom end punch and clarity of the kick drum. (Old school sound guys use this bit of knowledge. We tried to leave certain sonic spaces to different instruments)
Bottom line for us: One B2 has replaced my two B1s. One B2 has replaced my drummer’s four B1s. Better sound, easier transport/setup/tear down. There is a slight difference in the tone of the systems. We find it to be a positive one. That ‘thump’ factor is now easier to achieve, if you want it. (No offense to our DJ brothers and sisters, but we do aim for different targets in many ways)
Sorry for the rambling email. I’m tired after 4 days of 4 gigs. Still haven’t really slept and us old folks need it!
Mitchell
www.trickdogband.com
[edited for some typos - I told ya I was tired… Probably still missed some.]
Gentlemen, and perhaps ladies too…
I prefer to leave the math to the system manufacturers and the professional sound system installers who need math and specs to prepare a nice RFP.
For MI equipment, which is a massive percentage of the equipment market, may I suggest letting your ears save your brain a lot of work. Either equipment sounds good for it’s purpose, or it does not.
Through the years since 1972, my bands have gone from various giant sound systems with wedges, then IEMs, amps and acoustic drums, simulators and e-drums.
Our conclusion is this: We have never found a bar/night club that the Bose not only sounded superior, but we end up getting thanked for remembering that it actually matters if the bartenders can hear the wait staff’s food and/or drink orders. Also, patrons enjoy not having to scream all night for a change. Evidently it is difficult to be suave and seductive while having to scream your best pick lines over and over again. 
On the upper end of the cover band world, corporate events/parties and weddings, there is not a hotel ballroom in all of Houston that the Bose cannot handle for any size band.
The Bose stuff is NOT designed for the Godsmack or Pantera tribute band. Or to plug in an entire band into one L1 Model anything system.
I run sound for somme corporate event bands and also own a Presonus 24.4.2, Behringer x32, Mackie DL1604, 4 QSC K10s, 4 QSC KW122, and 4 QSC KW181s. All high quality MI grade gear. Depending on the size of the band, I’ve needed more inputs and complex monitoring capabilities than cascading T1 Tonematches can provide. One particular band refused to use any Bose equipment for various IMHO ‘bigoted’ reasons. So I set up a large QSC stack on each side of the stage. I also set up a Bole L1M2 with 4 B1 subs on each side and claimed it was for wedding announcement and break music use.
After the second set, the band pointed at the QSC stuff and said ‘See, now THAT sounds like a sound system!’ I replied 'Yes, it certainly does, then pointed out that the QSC stuff never was even hooked up to the A/C boxes. Total placebo. Why did I do all that extra work? So that I wouldn’t have to do it again and again and again in the future.
So, I repeat (because that’s what us old dudes do)… Don’t worry about the math. Use your ears. You’ll like it, or you won’t.
Again, sorry for the long email.
Quoting Litesnsirens reply to Jukebox Joe,
quote:Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
Yup I was indoors to do the test. I agree that outdoors might give me a better idea of the difference. At least to the point that maybe I could crank louder, but maybe I couldn’t even get to a point of distortion with the single B2. It’s a completely different animal, and again to notice a 3 db increase, that I couldn’t notice inside. I noticed a huge drop off in bass when I just powered down the packlite but no noticeable drop off when I just unplugged the 1/4" cable from the bass line out.
… see next post
quote:Originally posted by Jukebox Joe:
Litesnsirens, correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you did your ear-stressing test indoors. For me, the real difference between a single B1 and a second B1 is outdoors. Indoors I find the second B1 to be overkill (on a Model 1, not on a Model 2). But outdoors, that second B1 allows me to go louder without distortion, and I think that’s what you want to test with your B2. As long as you’re inside, I would imagine that anyone’s ears would reach a saturation point before being able to appreciate the extra headroom.
To all,
We have a new discussion for all the posts that seem to have been in response to this:
quote:Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
…
So I’m trying to make sense of the math. When you add a second B1 the power stand drops 6db to the bass, 3 db to compensate for the doubling of power due to the change in resistance to the power amp, and 3 db to account for the doubling in the amount of air that’s being pushed…
The new discussion is Going from one B2 to two B2s: I’m trying to make sense of the math
quote:Originally posted by Mitchell Bergen:
I prefer to leave the math to the system manufacturers and the professional sound system installers who need math and specs to prepare a nice RFP.
For MI equipment, which is a massive percentage of the equipment market, may I suggest letting your ears save your brain a lot of work. Either equipment sounds good for it's purpose, or it does not.
Don't worry about the math. Use your ears. You'll like it, or you won't.
For me personally, the math has nothing to do with deciding if something sounds good or not. I definitely use my ears for that. That's why I use the Bose L1 systems, I never even looked at a spec sheet when I decided to buy these. I'm interested in the math simply because I am interested in the math, ultimately I'm just curious. In fact despite the math that was quoted by Craig-at-Bose about the B2s, my ears tell me that there is no significant gain in using 2 B2s per side vs 1 B2 per side. So I've decided I'm just sticking with 1 per side for ease of set up and transport.
quote:Originally posted by Mitchell Bergen:
I run sound for somme corporate event bands and also own a Presonus 24.4.2
I'm looking at getting the 16.0.2. Have you used the 24.4.2 with the Bose L1s? If so is it a good match? I run my 4 piece band through two L1 model IIs and it works great using 2 T1s. I won't get rid of the T1s and will use them regularly, but I also use Presonus Studio One as my DAW. IF I use this board with my band I could mix the bands live sound, use the panning to position each musician on the stage and at the same time record via firewire on separate channels to Studio One on my macBook Pro. And of course I can use the 16.0.2 as my audio interface at home. So as someone who has both L1s and a Studio Live Board I'm looking for any thoughts you have on the combination. Are the presets for instruments and vocals on the Studio Live good?
My B2 arrived yesterday. I spent some time last night doing firmware updates on all my systems but was able to squeeze in just a few minutes of listening and playing time.
Time constraints meant I wasn’t really after a sound analysis… I had to get some practice time in as well as deal with the system updates.
I basically just set it up in my living room, so it was very much a near-field (i.e. not what it’s designed for at all) experience. Under those conditions the setting was a bit overwhelming… but it’s really clear that this will be great for large crowded rooms and outdoors. The normal setting was spot on for the close indoor thing.
Sometimes it’s hard to be objective because I find myself just enjoying how the L1 sounds.
After several gigs with the B2s and switching B2s for multiple B1s Packlites during breaks, I’ve given up on the math, science, and all of that.
It just works. Audience perception, band perception, recording perception all point to the same conclusion. 1 B2 can replace 4 B1s for Bass and/or Drum applications.
Hello tony,gw, ST, Oldghm,
Your comments exploring the technical aspects of the B2 are now added to the discussion I’m trying to make sense of the math.
Let’s keep the discussion here for owners reporting experiences with their B2s in live settings.
Please follow the link. Thank you.
Folks, please re-read this important statement:
quote:Originally posted by Mitchell Bergen:
Through the years since 1972, my bands have gone from various giant sound systems with wedges, then IEMs, amps and acoustic drums, simulators and e-drums.
Our conclusion is this: We have never found a bar/night club that the Bose not only sounded superior, but we end up getting thanked for remembering that it actually matters if the bartenders can hear the wait staff’s food and/or drink orders. Also, patrons enjoy not having to scream all night for a change. Evidently it is difficult to be suave and seductive while having to scream your best pick lines over and over again.
Politeness counts for something.
Hi All,
I got a new B2 on loan till Monday. I’ll be playing, acoustic songs all the way up to full blown Genesis Yes and Elp tunes with full bass and drum playbacks together with my keyboarder. I heard it in he shop and the difference is very noticeable. I will report next week how it went, and I’ll also run. my bass through it and see how it handles it.
John
First, apologies to all for typos and missing words. I very often post when exhausted.
Our drummer (TD30 Vdrums) has purchased a B2 of his own to replace his 4 B1s and is very happy with the sound and eaae of setup.
To Litesnsirens, Yes, I have used the Presonus 24.4.2 with the Bose L1M2 as conventional FOH speakers, with QSC K10 and/or QSC KW122 as monitors. The results? Truly exceptional sound. Client and band comments\ about it being the best they’ve ever heard.
The Studiolive presets, like most presets, are a good starting point for me when using the L1M2 as conventional mains. They are not optimized for the Bose system, but since I’m not using the Bose systems as designed, it doesn’t really matter. It takes very little EQ on the mains (L1M2) to make the Bose sound like a well balanced and EQ’d conventional system. Once I’ve reached that point (about 2 minutes), the Presonus presets behave the same as in a ‘normal’ FOH system. Except now you have the advantage of working with Bose’s superior sound dispersion and projection.
Thanks for that information Mitchell, I have a couple of gigs coming up in which I will use my 16.0.2 as my mixer. I have set it up in my home just to try out some of the presets and while they are not as specific or detailed as the Bose I find that they are really quite good, and I think as you say, once I get in a room it won’t take a lot of tweaking. We will still put the L1’s behind us and use them as mains and monitors.
I’m presuming that maybe you are maybe playing larger events than I am and therefore need to do separate mains and monitors. I’m playing mostly bar type venues, so if you are playing larger venues using powered monitors it’s good to know that is an option. In one of my other bands we door some fairly significant outdoor events, I’m curious as to how that would work out for us if we went to that solution. The one problem is that we are on a stage that is close to 4 feet off the ground so having the Bose behind us would probably be detrimental to the dispersion. If we could put them at the front of the stage maybe we could tilt them downward slightly and rectify that issue.