Connecting T8 to (2) L1 Model II (in mono) - using 1 as monitor

Portable PA
1

Hello - we are a 4 piece rock band - and successfully use (1) L1 MII with a B2 - connected thru a T8s - panned right for mono - we mic (4) vocals,, lead guitar, rhythm guitar (occasionally)  & bass drum (we do not mic the bass guitar) .. we love not having monitors.. and we have never turned it up past 4.. 

 

We have done this many times.. in crowds up to about 100 - indoor & outdoors.. 

 

We are soon playing an outdoor venue that holds up to 1000 people.. so I purchased another L1M2 with a B2 sub

 

I am thinking of using (1) L1 MII - out in front of band.. say.. on the right side - as a main.. 

                              and (1) L1MII - far back of the stage behind band .. (monitors & some throw) say.. on the left side.. 

 

I am assuming these (2) L1's will need to be at different volume levels.. 

 

connecting ideas:

(a) connecting via mains left & right seems easiest.. and adjust the mains pan a bit to feed the back of house L1 for monitors.. (less volume in back.. & more up front) 

 

(b) leave the front of house L1 on full right pan & connect the back of house L1 to aux out 1 and make adjustments.. 

 

what are your thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

2

We will be playing to an approximately football sized parking lot.. surrounded with buildings.. (except for the entrance & exits) with us on a raised stage at 1 end.. bikers hang out in the parking lot...drink & walk around.. check out all the bikes.. 

3

Hello dbisgrove,

 

I would respectfully advise against using one as main and one as monitor.  Yes, it will work as you described, in either of your two scenarios.  If you really want to use them in this way, I'd opt for your option B.  I'm guessing from your description that you normally set your Model II ahead of the band in smaller venues, and are still able to hear it just fine.  I know that using four mics with an L1 behind the band can be prone to feedback.

 

I'd opt for using both systems as mains, and pan every input to one side or the other, with nothing up the middle.  This will allow you to run your systems louder, as you'll only have two mics per system susceptible to feedback instead of four.  You won't be able to monitor quite as effectively as indoors, because you won't have the room helping to reflect sound back at you.  You can try pulling the Model II's back a little and turning them inward a tad to hear them.  If you have time to set up and test, or soundcheck at the venue well beforehand, try them fully behind you.

 

Model II's are often advertised as being able to reach an audience of up to 500.   However, expansion is not linear -- two Model II's won't do up to 1,000 unless you have them spread out to non-overlapping areas.  From your description, the crowd will be right in front of you.  It depends on how loud and rowdy the crowd is what kind of "penetration" you'll get.  You might have to consider hiring a traditional system for front of house, and use your Model II (or both) for monitoring as you're used to.  One the other hand, it might work just fine.

 

In the end, you have to do what is most comfortable for you, with techniques you're familiar with.  Make sure you have your current T8s setup saved as a scene, then experiment with different two-system setups to get what works best for you.

 

Does that help?

4

thanks fish 54 - I appreciate the prompt reply.. regarding what we do now

1. L1M2 is setup as far back as the stage will allow... usually about 6 ft behind me on the mic (small stages) 

2.  we soundcheck each (vocal) mic.. turn each one up until it squeals.. and play at those levels. 

3. instrument mics are never an issue.. they supplement the instrument.. and never loud enough to feedback. 

4. we then play at a level to match the mics.. and it is always great.. big full sound & folks can easily talk among themselves 10 ft away. 

5. we very rarely have any issues.. it is normal to go all night with no feedback. I guess we are using every bit of feedback protection the L1 provides.. 

Now - regarding your commentary & recommendations. 

(a) I think I understand..connect L1's to mains (L) & (R), evenly proportioned to each side.

(b) the pan the individual inputs from the mics.. half of them to the (L) & half to the (R) 

(c) Then set L1's middle of stage or so.. and turn a tad to hear them onstage. 

(d)  My concern is how loud it will be onstage.. 

(e) it is a big stage.. we can set both of the L1's behind us.. and 20 ft apart for sure. 

(f) wow.. but boy.. .. I think that will be very loud onstage..

(g) regarding the audience.. nobody within about 20 ft.. the parking lot egress is in front of stage..bikes ride by.. on their way out.. (or in) 

(h) most folks sit in the shade.. abut 75 to 100 ft in front or on the right.. and even farther back..up to about 150 ft.. in front of us.. 

(i) I said about 1000 people.. that is probably too much.. it is a big parking lot.. about 2/3 in front and another 1/3 off to the left.. I think about 500 bikes .. & about 700 folks would be about it.. 

 

5

Hello again dbisgrove,

 

Thanks for the additional info.  I think you already have a great handle on what you need and what's going on with your systems!  I wasn't catching earlier that one of more of the mics was mic'ing  instruments.  I mentioned a T4s in my reply; I don't know why I thought that, you obviously have a T8s.  I edited my reply to reflect that.

 

Yes, it will louder on stage than you may be used to, but the L1's carry the highs and mids like crazy, much better than the bass carries.  I've done a couple of big church parking lots and city parks with dual Model 1's, each with two B1's. The systems were about 10-12 feet behind us, and all the B1's stacked together.  Yep, it was loud, but not deafening -- just different.  A couple of times a year like that I can manage.  At one of them, my wife's cousin said she enjoyed the music, but we didn't know she was even there.  Turns out she wasn't -- she was on her front porch about four blocks away, in her quiet neighborhood.  It wasn't loud but it was clear as a bell.  Of course, we're not rockers either.  L1's will seldom knock a crowd off their feet with decibels, but they'll always give quality sound.

 

Thanks for the update!

 

6

Thanks Fish 54 -

Well well.. the parking lot commentary sold me.. I am gonna put the L1's in back of stage.. about 12 ft behind us.. I have never spread the vocal mics like that.. but it seems easy enough to try.. and adjust if necessary.. 

Yeah.. when we mic everything up.. we use 7 mics.. (4 vocals, 2 guitars & kick drum) ...our bass player has a big rig.. so I don't mic him.. 

 

I am using B2s.. and I have them on max bass..so.. we have what we need there.. 

the commentary about the wifey hearing you 4 blocks away sealed the sale.. 

 

We don't need to throw sound 4 blocks.. maybe 2 max.. so.. it won't be as loud for us onstage.. 

 

Seems like I am gonna get a good mix about 150 ft out.. 

 

thats the plan.. 

7

Hey Fish-54.. one more question.. 

 

When you setup with 2 L1M2's.. in the big parking lots.. Do you setup the mic inputs as previously discussed?  basically pan about half the mics (R) & half (L) ?   I am thinking of letting the instruments feed thru both sides.. & isolate vocals.. half (R) & half(L).. 

 

With more setup time I can make the adjustments on stage.. but it always seems we just do not get much time for soundchecks.. 

 

thanks again...

8

Hi again dbisgrove,

 

First a disclaimer:  Although Iwe've worked in a number of bands, it's just been a duo with the L1's.  My wife sings; I sing and play guitars; and we use stereo background tracks.

 

When using L1's, I've always kept the mics separated.  This does two things:

  • It ensures great gain before feedback.  Running two mics into a single tower is about four times more likely to feed back; three mics is roughly nine times more likely; and four mics is sixteen times more likely.  I applaud your ability to get multiple mics into one tower, but I'm betting the separation will let you get louder.
  • It enhances "the cocktail party effect."  Have you ever watched a video of a band where the director never put the camera on the lead guitar during his solo, because he didn't know who was playing?  With vocals and instruments separated, if the lead singer is on the left, people's ears will tell them its the person on the left.

As far as instruments, the advice I've always seen on the forum is to put instruments with similar voicing into different L1's, i.e., guitar and keyboard, bass and kick drum, etc.  That reduces the chance of muddying up the sound coming from a particular tower.  There's a couple of great discussions regarding this here and here.

 

Finally, what works for us may or may not work for you.  I try to keep my advice general in nature, because I don't know the sound you're looking for or your experience level.  Every spring when we get out of hibernation, I still set the system up in our driveway and scare the neighbors to make sure my memories and reality are pretty close.  Please take some rehearsal time to try a couple of setups. I think it would be worth it just to set new expectations, and find what works and what doesn't.  Most of all, have fun!

9

Fish-54 - great advice.. thanks.. and appreciate the kudos

I am gonna figure out a way to test multiple towers.. and see how it goes..