Is there a recommended way to connect both L and R outputs of a Yamaha MG10XU mixer to an L1 compact? Specifically, will it work properly if I do this?
MIXER:
1. Pan all mics to the left*
2. Pan all instruments** to the right * I’ll have two vocal mics. ** in my case all instruments will be acoustic (think one mic for a harmonium (acoustic pump organ), one mic for a set of tabla drums, and one for an acoustic guitar).
CONNECTIONS:
If I then connect as shown below, with the mixer’s left going to the L1C’s channel 1 and the mixer’s right going to the L1C’s channel 2 and the ToneMatch switch ON, will that be ok?
OR is my only recommended connection method one that’s shown elsewhere on the toonz.ca wiki: to pan everything to the left and connect to channel 2, leaving channel 1 unused?
Although, I’m not sure whether there is a significant advantage in splitting the signals other than to take advantage of the ToneMatch settings at the L1 end. If you feel you have all the EQ you need at the mixer through to the mic channel, do you really need to undergo the extra steps for splitting the signal just to take advantage of the ToneMatch settings? That’s a subjective question that only you can answer. There’s no right or wrong.
One aspect I try to follow, is aim for adjusting the EQ in a centralized place. Having to fiddle with EQ adjustments at a mixer as well as the L1 end can get to be a pain when trying to setup in a hurry. Best to set the L1 once and leave it to the mixer end for fine tuning.
You may understand this already so pardon the redundancy. If you want to split the signal, pay particular attention to the type of cable (balanced XLR/tip-ring-sleeve 1/4” TRS vs unbalanced or 1/4” tip sleeve).
The issue you have is that you will have 2 different inputs into the L1 compact, XLR for mic, 1/4” TRS for guitar/instrument. I’m not sure how the Yamaha mixer would react to taking the Left main out XLR channel and a Right main out 1/4” channel. Typically, you use one set of outputs or the other. Maybe the mixer user manual can shed some light on the mixing of outputs.
To be on the safe side, I would use 2 XLR main outs. One XLR can just be a simple mic cable from one of the mixer’s main out to the mic input of the L1. The second one would require you to get a XLR cable that has an XLR female connector at one end and a male 1/4” TRS at the other end to connect from the mixer to the 1/4” guitar input at the L1. Because these cables are balanced, you can have cable lengths greater than 20 feet without signals loss which gives you flexibility in where to position the mixer.
You can get a XLR to 1/4” TRS adapters, but Bose doesn’t recommend that as it can stick way out of the 1/4” input jack putting undo stress on the jack as well as being exposed to a risk of being bumped and breaking the jack.
Finally, experiment with different scenarios of ToneMatch and mixer settings to see what sounds best. Don’t just assume one way is the only way. Strive towards doing your fine tuning at the mixer.
Yes, follow the instructions at the link you provided, except:
Do not use the ToneMatch preset on channel 2.
Setting levels can be problematic as it is fairly easy to overdrive channel 1 with the mixer output. Follow Yamaha instructions to set vocal mic to optimum input level on mixer, then be mindful of the mix you send to the Compact. It is likely the vocal mic channel volumes will need to be set lower than the instrument channels to get a good blend without overdriving channel 1 on the Compact.
To summarize,
Pan vocal mics mics to one side and route to Compact channel 1.
Pan and route all other instruments to channel 2 with ToneMatch set to Line Level.
O..
Looks like Cityfolk and I were writing at the same time. Hope It's not confusing.
Thank you, Cityfolk, for confirming that the split channel setup will work. I think I’ll plan to do all of my mixing at the Yamaha end — thanks for that tip; I agree that perhaps the ToneMatch on channel 1 will be more of a distraction than an add-on: the only reason I considered using it is because I liked how it sounded at a friend’s — but then, in that setup the mic, and there was only one, was directly plugged into the L1C, the mixer being used ONLY for instruments, whereas in my case, I have two vocal mics, and fewer instruments.
Regarding the XLR(f)-to-1/4”TRS, is the potential physical stress on the channel 2 socket the sole reason behind Bose not recommending an adapter, or is there another reason? I have an “adapter” that’s actually a 6-inch cable, so the TRS-end “head” Is just like any other TRS jack, and the cable is just barely long enough to clear the back of the L1C. I’m hoping this will work as well as a one-piece XLR-to-1/4”TRS? Do I have to worry about possible signal loss/attenuation due to the adapter?
Oldghm, thank you for your thumbs up for the setup. With both you and Cityfolk agreeing that it “can work”, I’m more confident of trying my hand at this setup. I’m coming to this with near-zero experience with an L1C, so your help is gratefully appreciated.
I’m curious about your suggestion to set the channel 2 ToneMatch to line level. Do you mind explaining why? The reason for my confusion is that my instruments are all acoustic, they are picked up over the air by SM58s and SM57s and run to the mixer, the mixed sound I thought would match the illustration I linked earlier showing for two acoustic guitars, and recommending ToneMatch be set ON. There’s an accompanying illustration that recommends ToneMatch to be set OFF if you’re using electronic instruments (keyboard, electric guitar):
Is there something about the MG10XU that makes my all acoustic, all over-the-air mic setup more like the link here, versus the one I had linked to my first post? I’m relatively new to all this, so maybe I’m missing something really basic?
The channel 2 preset is for acoustic guitar. Presets are eq curves designed with particular use in mind. A preset for an acoustic guitar may lack the frequency response needed for your acoustic keyboard, or other instruments with a different frequency range. There is no harm in trying it, but I suspect best results will be found without it. Follow cityfolks advice and use the mixer to eq those mixer channels panned to Compact channel 2. Being acoustic or electronic should not be the factor when choosing a preset, that choice should be made on the frequency range of the instrument(s). If all you were routing to channel 2 was acoustic guitars then it would be appropriate to use the preset.
The channel 1 preset is designed for vocals and is not switchable, it is always on. That is the why you should pan and route only the vocal mics to that channel. I would set both tone controls in the center position, (12:00) and make subtle adjustments on the mixer.
ToneMatch presets are very helpful to new and even very experienced users of sound equipment. They are always a good place to start, but in the end, it is the ear that should decide if the sound is what pleases your ear. Be patient starting out. Start with tone controls in the 12:00 position and listen carefully for subtle changes as you make adjustments. Bose did a good job with the Compact, designing a system eq that is known for clarity and a pleasing overall system sound.
Try to set up with your full complement of players and instruments and rehearse a few times before committing to a performance to an audience. Having as many as 5 open mics could be problematic and cause some feedback issues. Learning how to solve or control unexpected issues will be important to the learning process.
Hi Oldghm - Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I think I’m not only beginning to appreciate why the split channel setup will work, but also why the general recommendation when using an external mixer is to pan everything to the left on the mixer and just use the line input on channel 2 for it when you have just one L1C in the mix. I’ll play with both kinds of setup and see which works best for us. Sounds like I have a busy weekend or two ahead of me (fwiw, we are a family “band” — both parents sing, the kids play the instruments (and sing)).
Well being a family band means you're all together for practice, and no excuse for being late, and usually, great harmony.
Try both setups.
Because I really like the vocal presets, I encourage you to try and master the panning right and left using both Compact channels. If you keep all eq controls on the vocal channels set at 12:00 you should have a great starting point for crisp, clear vocals.
I think controlling / mixing levels without feedback might be your biggest issue to solve / control. Placement of the Compact in relation to the mics will be critical. Any mic not being actively used should be turned down on the mixer. That will require someone, perhaps one not playing an instrument, to have the mixer near to make realtime adjustments.
I think you can find a lot of good suggestions in the wiki so I encourage you to continue research there, but feel free to ask questions here as the need arises.
lol at your first paragraph. As I’m sure anyone with kids knows, getting them to the “table” on time is in and of itself a Herculean task, but we try.
I tried both setups, and what do you know, both worked reasonably well. The split channel setup with the vocals panned left and going to the Compact’s channel 1, was a clear winner to me, personally. The wife and kids didn’t really fall as much in love with it as I. I think the thing may be that I may have oversold it a bit, and raised their expectations a tad too much <shrug>. Oh well, it is still early days, maybe they’ll warm up to it as we play more.
We’ve decided to audition each setup for a couple of full practice sessions, and record the live sound coming from the Compact to compare apples-to-apples. I’ll come back here in a week or two with another update.
Your willigness to explore and experiment will be rewarded with a greater understanding of your sound, your equipment, and the families musical talent.
It is not unusual for singers to be uncomfortable when first starting to use the L1 systems. We don't hear our own voice as others hear it, until it comes back to us through a quality speaker capable of reproducing a very natural sound, as the Compact does.
When performing, I use subtle eq to warm and smooth my vocal delivery in a manner that pleases my ear. That sound might be considered an enhancement of my natural voice. When practicing I tend to use eq controls in the flat position. Over the years the sound that pleases me is more natural than enhanced and I think has made me a better singer.
