I use the Sennheiser HSP-4 headset mic (Condenser mic with Cardioid polar pattern). I like to move around (in fact dance) and I play small venues. I have a lot of trouble with feedback. Any suggestions. It is getting very annoying however, I love the sound when it is right. What can I do about the feedback?
Hi bpollefeyt,
Glad you joined us.
Thanks for giving us the details of your microphone. I found the manual here:
Sennheiser HSP 4 Manual
Several things to check that might help with controlling feedback.
- Check the position of the microphone. You want it as close as you can, to the corner of your mouth, without picking up plosives or wind noise.
–== click the picture to see it in context (page 5 of the manual) ==–
- Check your gain staging. The Input/OL light on the power stand should be just flickering in the red as you are singing as loud as you will in performance.
Check out Steve’s video on gain staging (setting the Input Trim).
–== click the picture to see the video ==–
- Try different presets (Classic and Model I) Preset 02, 03, 04 are all worth trying.
- Try rolling off the High’s just a little on the R1 Remote.
- If you are moving around a lot, then having the L1™ behind may not be as much a part of your show, as it might be if you were stationary. You could try moving the L1™ to one side of the stage.
- Turn down the volume? I often have to remind myself, especially in smaller venues - if I can hear myself on the stage, then in all likelihood, so can the audience.
Here are some general notes about feedback:
Feedback / Microphone in the wiki.
Dancing?
Please, you’ve got to tell us more about your show:
- What kind(s) of music you play?
- Where you do it (size, type of venue)?
- Who is there (audience) - how many, what are they doing while you are performing?
- Do you have a web site?
- If no web site, could you post a picture of your ensemble?
Thank you.
I have posted great things since I 1st switched to the PAS system. My #1 problem is sufficient volume w/ vocals. I used the Shure Beta 87a and I was too hot. Now, w/ both a Shure 58 and a Beta 58a, I still find the vocals not keeping up w/ the electric band. I would love a little more presence. FYI, I have the tonematch and I set the respective mikes w/ their tonematch setting. Any one found a solution for a desire for more presence vocally?
quote:Originally posted by Esparka:
I have posted great things since I 1st switched to the PAS system. My #1 problem is sufficient volume w/ vocals. I used the Shure Beta 87a and I was too hot. Now, w/ both a Shure 58 and a Beta 58a, I still find the vocals not keeping up w/ the electric band. I would love a little more presence. FYI, I have the tonematch and I set the respective mikes w/ their tonematch setting. Any one found a solution for a desire for more presence vocally?
I am not sure what the Tone module is capable of, but I would suggest looking into a device that can provide both compression and noise gating. The gating will basically keep your mic 'off' until you sing into it, eliminating the feedback (to a point) and the compression should give your voice a bit more punch.
If you are still not set on a mic, you may want to try the EV 767a also. I know it cuts through the mix very well, and doesn’t feedback very easily.
Thanks Musicman,
It seems so obvious now that the noisegate is the answer; still, your post prompted my epiphany. We play electric and definitely louder that an acoustic act. (ex: I use either two customized Blues Jr’s in stereo, my '65 Super Reverb, or my ProTube Twin Amp on stage) The tonematch’s noisegate solved the feedback resulting form my need to push the vocal mike to the max. Also, I don’t have to stand in between the mike and the bose to avoid that ensuing ring. The band was awestruck by my the improvement in my “mixing prowess”. Of course, I didn’t tell them that you cued me in. Thanks, (and don’t tell anyone you told me, ha!)
quote:Originally posted by ~Musicman~:quote:Originally posted by Esparka:
I have posted great things since I 1st switched to the PAS system. My #1 problem is sufficient volume w/ vocals. I used the Shure Beta 87a and I was too hot. Now, w/ both a Shure 58 and a Beta 58a, I still find the vocals not keeping up w/ the electric band. I would love a little more presence. FYI, I have the tonematch and I set the respective mikes w/ their tonematch setting. Any one found a solution for a desire for more presence vocally?
I am not sure what the Tone module is capable of, but I would suggest looking into a device that can provide both compression and noise gating. The gating will basically keep your mic ‘off’ until you sing into it, eliminating the feedback (to a point) and the compression should give your voice a bit more punch.
Recently I bought 5 L1 MODEL II plus one Packlite for bass/drums. I basically use this sound system in order to improve the quality of live performances in my country, Romania, and also to represent artists that are signed on my label house Catapulta Records www.catapulta.eu
I am extremely pleased with this revolutionary product and I use every opportunity to show it and to test it with as many musicians as possible. From tango concerts to balkan beatz, from rock to jazz, I have tested a variety of instruments, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, saxofones, drums, percussions of all kinds (darbuka, djembe,congas, timbale etc.) saz, didgeridoo, dj’s, violins, cello. In few words recently I had a lot of fun experimenting this sound system and I must say it exceeded my expactions. But still I am not pleased with the feedback problem on vocals used on rock/jazz bands where the sound level needs to be, let’s say. a little bit louder.
So far I have tried Shure Beta58, sm58, Beta 57, AKG 660 d and still I am not happy. Can anyone tell me if Shure KSM9 will increase my gain possibilities, reducing the feedback on the L1.
So far I have tried to place the vocalist in more PAS presented on stage but still the sound level is not at the optimum level and any increase will cause unwanted feedback.
Hopefully someone will provide a good solution or I will find it from my own experience, until then a Big Thank You to the Bose crew for developing such a great product for musicians and also for the public.
A good day to all of you.
Mani Gutau
Catapulta Records
Thanks for the input,
Your dilemna is exactly the problem I encounter. The vocals do need to be more in the mix and present. Some advice has been offered which boils down to, "Don’t use your tube amp (pod “yuck”) and turn down the band. Well, if you find a solution to upping the amplitude of the vocal (I use beta 87a) thereby leaving the punch of stage volume alone, let me know. I find that using the noise gate contained within the “Tonematch” adds some amplitude before the feedback hits. The only lament being there still exists a lack of the full presence w/ re: to the vocal.
Let’s find a solution to this one drawback and/or bar to perfection.
quote:"Don't use your tube amp (pod "yuck")
I think the main thing here is to just make sure the instrument coming out of the L1 is louder than out of it's amp. In other words, turn amps way down, and mic it into the L1. This way the acoustic spread of the L1 is the same for every instrument/vocal.
The problem is getting the tube amp sound you like at a low volume. Many folks around here are finding good ways to do that, mostly by using smaller amps. The Roland Cubes are nice...there are many more.
Check out this video clip by forum member, Sarkis. This guitar tone is blistering...so is the vocal!
quote:Originally posted by Esparka:
Thanks for the input,
Your dilemna is exactly the problem I encounter. The vocals do need to be more in the mix and present. Some advice has been offered which boils down to, "Don't use your tube amp (pod "yuck") and turn down the band. Well, if you find a solution to upping the amplitude of the vocal (I use beta 87a) thereby leaving the punch of stage volume alone, let me know. I find that using the noise gate contained within the "Tonematch" adds some amplitude before the feedback hits. The only lament being there still exists a lack of the full presence w/ re: to the vocal.
Let's find a solution to this one drawback and/or bar to perfection.
I play in a rock band. I've been through shure 58 and beta 58. Both sound good with the L1, but are a little feedback sensitive in tight areas if you want to play loud.
I've found that the sennehieser 945e gets nice and loud and is hard to make feedback. Of course you will have to put a lot of gain behind it on the L1.
Another couple of issues is mic technique and how resonant the singer is. I'm sure by now you've read all about mic technique here on the forums. I've found the louder you want to play the more imporant it is for a singer to have a relaxed yet powerful resonant forward placement in their voice.
If a singers voice is weak the louder a band is the harder it's going to be to get enough gain for the vocalist to compete volume wise.
I've seen this type of subject on the forums a few time. I guess what bose users need is a list of go to mics that enable a singer to crank it up as much as possible without feeding back, for those times you feel the need to crank it.
I've had a thrash band through my L1's with them cranked pretty good. Ithink the masters were at about 2. They of course weren't using backline amps, but they had no problem with singer being heard over the rest of the music or the acoustic drums, which were being slammed on.
I've heard good things about the audix om7 in really loud situations. I think someone on the board here was running a test on it, but I could find it myself.
Of the 3 mics I’ve been able to compare,
EV767a, EV967, and Audix Om7, the Om7 is the best at feedback rejection as well as picking up less stage wash from amps and drums. I have not used the L1 system against a full set of backline amps and acoustic drums but having been in “stupid-loud” bands before I know the L1 system is not designed for “all out war” against such loud stage volumes.
I must admit frustration @ the inability to use the compression and the Gate @ the same time on the Tonematch. That would definitely end it.
I’ve also been working to turn down. (for those looking in)
Someone just sent me a response to my plea on this thread. He says the Sennehieser e945 worked great for him as a cut through the mix while being feedback resistant.
Here is a quote from the Sennehieser folks re: the e945.
“The Sennheiser e945 Supercardioid Dynamic Mic is a fully professional supercardioid vocal microphone that cuts through the mix and offers a smooth, natural sound. Its warm tonal response is matched with rugged construction and excellent feedback rejection.”
I “will” be checking this out.
(below)
quote:Originally posted by ~Musicman~:
I am not sure what the Tone module is capable of, but I would suggest looking into a device that can provide both compression and noise gating. The gating will basically keep your mic ‘off’ until you sing into it, eliminating the feedback (to a point) and the compression should give your voice a bit more punch.
quote:Originally posted by Ric:
I play in a rock band. I've been through shure 58 and beta 58. Both sound good with the L1, but are a little feedback sensitive in tight areas if you want to play loud.
I've found that the sennehieser 945e gets nice and loud and is hard to make feedback. Of course you will have to put a lot of gain behind it on the L1.
Another couple of issues is mic technique and how resonant the singer is. I'm sure by now you've read all about mic technique here on the forums. I've found the louder you want to play the more imporant it is for a singer to have a relaxed yet powerful resonant forward placement in their voice.
If a singers voice is weak the louder a band is the harder it's going to be to get enough gain for the vocalist to compete volume wise.
I've seen this type of subject on the forums a few time. I guess what bose users need is a list of go to mics that enable a singer to crank it up as much as possible without feeding back, for those times you feel the need to crank it.
I've had a thrash band through my L1's with them cranked pretty good. Ithink the masters were at about 2. They of course weren't using backline amps, but they had no problem with singer being heard over the rest of the music or the acoustic drums, which were being slammed on.
I've heard good things about the audix om7 in really loud situations. I think someone on the board here was running a test on it, but I could find it myself.
Thanks for your input. I plan to check out that mike (e945) to compare to the 58's.
On another note, I gathered many condenser mikes at a sucession of shows not long ago. The mike which was noticeably louder before feedback was the C-3000b (AKG?) I just got another on Craigslist. I recommend it for consideration w/ anyone's PAS system.
Stupid loud… yes, our band is rehearsing our whole show for 2008 w/ a design toward less volume while still not shying away from the fact that we like to “Kick A**”! I, the typical guitarist, am the last to see the next level of adjustment needed to get the band sound to mesh properly w/ the Bose concept, and the slowest to admit needing to “tone it down” and use the bose to project the whole band. This will also help the vocal cut and sit @ more in the mix.
Hi Sparks,
quote:Originally posted by Esparka:
I must admit frustration @ the inability to use the compression and the Gate @ the same time on the Tonematch. That would definitely end it.
I’ve also been working to turn down. (for those looking in)
Turning down might be good. But in the meantime — do you have a channel free on your
If so, you might be able to take your microphone input, route that to AUX, then take a simple male-to-male ¼ inch to ¼ inch instrument cable and connect the Aux out to another Channel input. I think you’d want to use the noise gate on the Channel you are using for the microphone. Then add the compression and whatever else you want in the second channel.
I don’t use compression in situations where feedback is an issue. I just haven’t found that it actually helps, but if you want to try this, it should give you a way to do both gate and compression at the same time.
I think that KSM9 it can be a solution to this problem. It gives you less feedback and great quality on vocals. It would be nice to have a preset for this great mike, maybe soon the people from Bose will develop one.
Another suggestion is to use the mike via a TC Helicon product, example Voice Live or Harmony G, it ends the vocal problems right away. I know it is a little bit unconventional method (after all L1 is also not a conventional system) as the mike is not plugged in directly on the ToneMatch but I tried this solution and in a strange way the volume of your mike can be increased a lot until you will reach feedback, more than you actually need for every type of concert, including loud aggressive rock concerts. And in my point of view this is the most important prejudice regarding this sound system, most of the people consider it suitable only for jazz/world music concerts, for performances included in the light section as volume and dynamic. Personally this is my goal for the moment, to prove that this system can be used also for punk or drum&bass, and I already organized few concerts presenting this styles.
Bottom line it would be great to have an official preset for this great mike and also to have one for Taylor K-4, the preamp developed by Taylor.
I bought recently a Taylor T5 Custom, it sounds great on the original preset of the ToneMatch but I would like to use a Taylor A/B BOX to combine two channels, one for the T5 preset and one for the Taylor K-4 for a more warmer sound.
Maybe soon these presets will be available, until then I strongly recommend KSM 9 for great vocals and Taylor T5 as one of the most versatile guitars on the market and extremely compatible with the possibilities of L1.
A good day to all L1 owners, looking forward for new solutions for all of us.
quote:Originally posted by Esparka:
I must admit frustration @ the inability to use the compression and the Gate @ the same time on the Tonematch. That would definitely end it.
I've also been working to turn down. (for those looking in)
Someone just sent me a response to my plea on this thread. He says the Sennehieser e945 worked great for him as a cut through the mix while being feedback resistant.
Here is a quote from the Sennehieser folks re: the e945.
"The Sennheiser e945 Supercardioid Dynamic Mic is a fully professional supercardioid vocal microphone that cuts through the mix and offers a smooth, natural sound. Its warm tonal response is matched with rugged construction and excellent feedback rejection."
I "will" be checking this out.
(below)quote:Originally posted by ~Musicman~:
I am not sure what the Tone module is capable of, but I would suggest looking into a device that can provide both compression and noise gating. The gating will basically keep your mic 'off' until you sing into it, eliminating the feedback (to a point) and the compression should give your voice a bit more punch.
A couple of months ago I switched over to an EV 967 from an sennheiser 945e, which I liked. The EV is exceptional at having good tone quality and extreme feedback rejection at the same time. It sounds better than the sennhieser. The sennheiser is more of a buttery/smooth sound, where the EV is more of a high gain sound the picks up every little part of your voice. Every little crackly and click and overtone. It is great for both high and low ranges. The mic is designed for close technqique where you eat the mic. the grille is flattend out and right on top of the capsule.
So, back off just a little bit and your voice start to get lost. Lips on the mic and your voice cuts through.
I've noticed that it also had a low/mid ranged boost when up close. It is not a muddy boost though. It is really good for shall we say mountain man heavy vocals. It has an emphasis, in that range, but it is not over done.
So, for the EV 976, out of the mics I've tried has been the KING of good live sound feedback rejection. AKA, getting my mic rediculously loud through my Bose L1.
To give you an example of the type of vocal I use this mic for, when I play out live, people come up to me and say I sounded a bit like: Queensryche/Dio/Rob Halford/Zakk Wylde/Ozzy. My range on a keyboard is a full four octaves, two either way from middle C. The bose L1 EV976 sounds really good to my ear in just about all those ranges. This combination, with a good mic angle, and me eating the mic allows me to have my mic as loud as 3 o'clock with the master at 3'oclock in most of the places we play. We normally don't play that loud. But, we always check just how loud we can turn up to make up for when a crowd rolls in. (And sometimes we just get really stupid with the volume,hehehehhehehhehehe)
As far as head sets. I bought one for a different project. A shure one. It was a condensor as well. I like the sound of it. But, definately too sensitive for live, with a full band. Condensors are normally too sensitive when you are loud and in a tight areas. Tight is usually any medium sized club. My advice just get mic on a stand, or if you don't play an instrument a wireless handheld if you are trying to move around more. IMO,mics on stand sound better for some reason.