Hello everyone!
The L1M2B2T1 had it's first real gig yesterday. It didn't do an amazing job, but the room was massive. Basically an airport hanger with brewery in it. Up close it was super clear, but it just didn't have the headroom (before feedback) to carry to the back (A set of F1 systems would probably have been the answer so I can't be mad at the stick). We had huge issues with feedback, the worst yet TBH. I had the tower on stage angled at about 45 degrees 12-15' behind the singer. The first drummer plays way too loud so I don't blame the system (I told him to lighten up but he did not, plus playing low end harsh cymbals ate the top end of the mix there was nothing I could do). I ended up having to move it off the stage about 10 feet to the right of the signer. I angled it slightly towards the band and this helped the feedback quite a bit (I also had the gates on full blast and the low end rolled off). I still couldn't get enough level though. You could hear the system starting to feed back then the gate catching it. People kept telling me to turn up the vocals but I just didn't have the ability. If we play there again we will be charging much more and would probably rent an F1, or a second L1 for the other side of the stage.
Once we got on stage things were better since we know how to keep our levels in check (you don't always have to hit the drums at 110% power). That said I could not hear any of the vocals or guitar (both miced) on my side of the stage. The speaker was just too far away (singer was close enough to the stick and said it sounded great. I posted recently about upgrading to a T4, but honestly I don't think we need it. L1 did fine and we never need more than 3 inputs these days anyway. This got me thinking about adding an S1 as a monitor instead of a mixer upgrade. With the L1 so far away (to combat feedback), it would have been nice to bring a bit of sound to fill the left side of the stage, or even put it behind me to add a bit more out front. We miced the kick, guitar. and one vocal. Sending just guitar and vox to the AUX out and into a small monitor would have been AMAZING!
I'm wondering if anyone uses the S1 as a monitor, and how is it going? Is there a version without a battery? I seem to recall the battery being an optional extra when it launched.
Thanks!!! 
I use mine as a monitor all the time...it works great. I have the T8S and use the "headphone" jack out to the S1 pro (TS cable). I do this because it is way easier to quickly adjust the volume level compared to using an AUX out. (Limits...headphone jack will be post effects and all channels. So if you are only wanting to hear yourself (or specific channels) you must map Aux outs).
Also....all S1 pros come with batteries now..
I've been researching the S1 a bit and the battery seems pretty handy, decent life too. Is there level control on the aux send? I don't mind menu digging. Just would be annoying to have to get up and adjust the gain on the speaker.
I believe you can adjust the aux send volume with some menu digging on the t1 (I've only owned the t8s so someone more knowledgeable than I will surely answer that). The battery on the S1 is amazing. I use my S1 for solo performances, band rehearsals and as a monitor when playing with the band and on battery power 100% of the time! Never have I lost power during a prax/performance??
My S1 saved my set last weekend.
A PA was provided but the kid doing sound was either a trainee and/or fairly clueless.
Our set (2 guitars, drums, 2 vocals) turned into a free-for-all jam when first one bass player who couldn't find the pocket came up until he was replaced by another, louder bass player who couldn't find the pocket AND a keyboard player who couldn't find the pocket and was way, WAY too loud in the monitors. Our drummer was also going crazy -- he's an excellent drummer who keeps great time and knows how to play softly. A treasure. He actually had to stop when someone jumped up on Congas who couldn't find the pocket and was busy as h7ck and tell the guy to please try to play on the beat (while I was telling bass player number one to stop pushing the beat).
Luckily I had set up my Bose S1 pro as a guitar monitor (my acoustic AND electric plugged into it) and used the line output to the PA to mix my guitar(s) into the mains. If I hadn't had that monitor it would have been impossible to ignore the terrible tempo of the "interlopers" and play on tempo.
(Have I mentioned I'd rather have NO stage monitors than ****** or badly mixed ones?)
(I was also reminded why I don't like "jams" and don't like to play loud bar gigs.)
PS: Short answer without editorial "whine", S1s make nice monitors...beautiful sound - I like their tone better than the L1M2 🙂
So then you can use one or two L1M2s or 2 F1s as mains while having a consistent and excellent stage sound once the mix is dialed in...
Thanks friends.
I know the T1 aux outs are not all the hot. Does anyone ever have trouble pushing enough level from the mixer?
I also looked at the manual and there is an aux level in the aux/pan menu. Useful!
@Boy_Narf playing in a hanger like venue has got to be one of the most awkward vensues to play in. @Chet having a free for all jam with who knows what coming up, must’ve have been the gig from he????. Our available performance venues have suffered due to us being averse to loud bar gigs so I’m with you on that one too.
Getting back to the topic at hand, I would also say having the S1 act as a monitor off an Aux or Headphone out from the mixer would work well. You may want to turn off the S1 Reverb, keep the EQ flat, and turn off the Tonematch switch unless you are using it just for guitar or just voice. Then you could see if the ToneMatch setting for guitar or mic would be helpful. My recommendation is to centralize the EQ/volume etc. on the mixer so you just have one place to go to for adjustments.
While you will still have to run a cable to the S1 from a mixer, being able to use its battery power will allow a great deal of flexibility as to where you place the speaker.
Beyond this topic, but there are folks on this forum that have used some wireless solutions to connect the S1 to a mixer that have worked well.
In addition, besides acting as a monitor, the S1 could be used as an extension speaker to the L1 where you might need to point sound in a direction away from the L1.
For example, we play in a small outdoor venue where most of the audience is in front of us (fine for the L1) but there is a small section off to one side and behind us (where the L1 cannot be heard)! So we just put the S1 on a speaker pole pointing into that awkward space and run an XLR cable from the Aux Out of our mixer to it. No need for power since we use it on its own battery power so we don’t have to restricted as to where we place it to be near a power outlet. Works like a charm.
So you have a couple of different usage scenarios for the S1 to consider which may help you with justifying the investment.
Yes the sound in the hanger was awful. I was mad at the Bose at first then realized it would take like a way bigger system as well as a pile of money in dampening. Wrong tool for the job, but it still got us through. I read the S"as a monitor with a t1" document and there is some handy stuff in there. Will control it completely off the T1, and set the level and eq as per the suggestions. I think I'll pop in on Monday and check it out.
Well I just picked up the S1Pro and it's a neat little package. It can't handle much low but it sounds pretty good when kept within limits (there should be a built in limiter on the low frequencies, I had my phone on shuffle and a very low mid heavy song came on causing it to "fart out" immediately). I will be testing it out as a vocal/guitar monitor on Friday.
I plan to run a TRS cable from the AUX out on the T1 into channel 1 on the S1P for my monitor mix (I will only send guitar and vox). Now my question is, would I also be able to run out of the S1 line out and into channel 4/5 to "add bluetooth" to the T1 (TRS --> Stereo 1/4 cable)? I know this creates a loop but I'm thinking...
- The Aux out into the T1 will allow for a monitor mix while we are playing. Channel 4/5 will be muted.
- Once we are finished, I would mute channels 1,2,3 and unmute channel 4/5. I will then connect my phone via bluetooth to the S1P which will send the signal from the line out and back into the T1 channel 4/5.
We had to handle background music in between bands, and I had a horrible cable with a 1/8" jack that kept unplugging from my phone with the slightest jostle. Bluetooth would have been awesome. Do you guys think this will work, or will there be some crazy ground loop/other issues?
Thanks,
We've decided to quiet it down for the next little while and had a dual acoustic and vocals rehearsal last night. I plugged my A6 into a Pro Jr, but the other fellow plugged his Rainsong and vocals into the S1. I understand now. It did a great job! Nice clear guitar/vocal separation and the built in reverb was fantastic to add a touch of air to everything. We spent a bit of time discussing logistics and decided for smaller/coffeeshop gigs we could get away with just the S1 and my Pro Jr. instead of hauling the L1. There was only one time when his guitar overloaded the S1 but he was goofing around playing way too hard. I also realised after the jam that I forgot to set the tone match to guitar so I imagine things to be even more balanced next time we jam.
I think I finally understand this little thing. I bought it for something it wasn't really designed for. Right too for the right job. I think a set of these would be killer for our acoustic stuff. Might have to look into picking up a second one down the road if this concept pans out.
One question...
When plugging a guitar in via 1/4 into the S1, should I be using a regular guitar cable? Or is a balanced TRS cable still recommended?
Thanks,
Since regular electric guitars only have female TS (2 conductor) 1/4" unbalanced output, use a regular guitar cable (or wireless).
Another thing to remember is that because the signal is unbalanced, the guitar cable should be no more than 18' long since you run the risk of external electromagnetic fields disturbing the signal with longer cable runs.
Chet is spot on as usual ??.
Only thing I’d add is keeping a TS cable length at or under 18’ can be awkward if you want to place the S1 (or mixer) at a further distance or up on a speaker pole.
Therefore, what I do is have my pedal board with tuner, chorus, delay, blah blah and a preamp that has a built in direct box. So I run a short 10’ 1/4” TS cable to my pedal board and an XLR cable from the pedal board to the S1 or mixer if we use our L1M2.
So the bottom line recommendation is to plug your TS cable into a DI box near you on stage and then run whatever length XLR/mic cable to wherever you have your mixer or S1. I also have a snake with 8 XLR inputs I can use when we have a bigger band. Then I go from the DIs into the 30’ snake.
DI boxes are pretty cheap too. I find the overall signal is noticeably better when I do this vs just using a TS cable directly in. It’s one more connection, but worth it for the better signal and setup flexibility.
As usual, our friend CityFolk has contributed some more very important information to the discussion.
Indeed, I normally use 3' TS "guitar" cables from the two pickup systems in my guitar to my pedal board (a 2 channel mixer first - then Tuner, Chorus, Delay and Looper) at my feet then use a 12' Monster TS guitar cable or sometimes xVive wireless to get the guitar signal to the board (or Bose S1).
For bigger gigs when I'm not sure how far I will be from the board, I'll bring another 3' TS cord to go from the looper to a DI that I bring and then the sound guys only have to supply an XLR cable to my guitar rig (and another for my vocal mic).
Other times (like the next 2 days) I carry my AER Tommy Emmanuel amp (with crystal clean amazing reverb) and place it next to me on stage -- I plug my Vocal Mic (phantom powered Neumann) into one channel of the AER and the short 3' cord from looper to the guitar channel on AER. The amp has an XLR DI output that mixes the guitar and vocal post effects, so I carry an XLR to XLR cable to go directly to the board and mix my vocal/guitar balance on the AER.
Nice setups Chet! At the risk of derailing the thread, what looper do you use?
For quick and dirty lay down a rhythm and play lead, the one that's on the pedalboard is a TC Ditto X2 with 2 switches -- record/overdub and on/off.
For playing back the backing tracks I've recorded, a Digitech Stereo Jam Man...
PS: One does have to use an affirmative Foot press to make sure the Ditto works right. The Digitech is less "sensitive" - more reliable. I actually have both the single pedal version (Solo XT) and the double pedal version - JamMan Stereo. They use the same cards
I also have a Trio -- but that's a different breed of cat. Not a simple looper, more of a rhythm loop, drums and bass generator that listens to the guitar track recorded -- and it has fewer channels to store tracks in.
Well we finally had a loud jam and the S1 just isn't going to cut it. I turned off the mains and just had the S1 going out of aux for a few moments and it was not audible until the guitar stopped. Yes it's set to the proper gain just under clipping. It just doesn't have enough headroom to use as a monitor for our singer. We ended up putting it on a table just a few feet behind his head which proved to be about the same. At least he could hear it though. He kept asking to turn it up and I said "sorry man it's maxed". I was hoping this would make the cut, oh well.
After our acoustic rehearsal last week I understand it's uses (small gigs that don't require ear plugs. In our case anyway, it will work fantastic for these venues and our upcoming unplugged showcases). It is a solid bluetooth speaker as long as it's not bass heavy music (I'm still hoping for a "with sub/hpf" option in the software one day heh). Do I have buyers remorse? Slightly haha. In hindsight for barely any more money I should have gone with an F1, I also think there was a $100 gift card offer with it. Ah well, will have to wait until next February to hit the promo again.
Thanks again for all the help/guidance!
Wow, you guys must play LOUD! 😉
Not really my friend. I learned a while back that I don't have to hit the drums at 110% were just a two piece with a 15 watt fender and 200 watt bass amp. We are not having a volume war that's for sure.
We always play with ear plugs regardless and I think this is the trouble. You don't realize how loud things get with plugs in until you run out of headroom haha.
