Impromptu neighborhood Friday evening front porch concert

Portable PA
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We just acquired a second S1 and have been anxious to test it out with our acoustic folk duo with our other S1, but like everybody, all of our near term concerts have been cancelled. So we decided to hold a Friday evening front porch concert at our house for our neighborhood and use the new setup. 

Wow it was amazing. Not only to play for neighbors passing by (we kept everyone at a safe distance outside) who’ve been cooped up all week, but the setup and sound were so nice. We used Xvive U3s on the two Sm 58 Beta mics, a Xvive U2 on one guitar and a Getaria 2.4GHZ wireless system (which I found on Amazon US for $40!) on the other guitar. Both S1s on battery. Nothing else.

With this setup, we can now setup anywhere! Not sure how robust the Getaria will be, but it sounded just as good as the Xvive U2. It didn’t have an elegant channel selection feature like the U2 and we weren’t in a challenging wireless environment, so I’d prefer the U2 in general. But for $40 and casual use, hmmm.

A side note on both the wireless guitar systems, they both produced a slight hum on the one guitar that has a built in preamp. My guitar with a passive K&K had no issues. You could position the transmitter away from the guitar body to minimize the hum to the point you wouldn’t hear it while playing. You could probably cable to a stomp box tuner and put the transmitter on the tuner out to get it away from the preamp in the guitar and I bet that would eliminate the slight hum completely, but I didn’t actually try that.

So we had a great evening playing music for folks and helped them out of their shelter in place doldrums. Doesn’t get much better than that.

Stay safe and healthy everyone. 

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Thx for the share mate ... Stay safe & healthy & keep spreading the love 

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Brilliant, well done guys 

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I believe the Xvive is made for passive instruments only. That would explain the hum.

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To Molf2019, the hum was very minimal, but you’re absolutely right and Xvive clearly mentions that in their product description.

Just for folks considering it, I think it may be more acute with active electric instruments. If one is very sensitive to a slight ground loop like hum, it would be an issue. For us, with acoustic guitars (no high gain etc.) it was livable.

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but surely a guitar (electric/acoustic/electro-acoustic) connected to it's amplification via a wireless system cannot possible cause a ground loop?

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Can't address the technical issues (as I don't use the same wireless gear) but kudos to you and your mates for "takin' it to the streets"! Just make sure your audience is practicing safe socializing 😉

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The fact that Xvive states that it is for passive instruments only leads me to believe that this IS the case.

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Molf2019 posted:

The fact that Xvive states that it is for passive instruments only leads me to believe that this IS the case.

By definition an earth (ground) loop can only exist when the earths of multiple pieces of equipment form a loop (hence the advice to employ star formation for wiring all your mains connections in the studio). A wireless system cannot form part of a ground loop.

OTOH if you use a wireless guitar system with a battery powered speaker* the absence of a ground can allow EMI to enter the system, it might even sound similar to a 'ground loop' generated noise but is can't be a 'ground loop' causing it.

* The common one is a laptop running on batteries and a ground lifted connection, maybe a transformer isolator box, to the PA.

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Sorry all. My statement about a ground loop hum was trying to describe what the hum sounded like. The hum coming out of the Xvive sounded like a ground loop hum, not that it was a ground loop hum. 

It was probably interference from the proximity of the preamp (which probably puts out some small electronic field around it) to the wireless device transmitter. If you bent the wireless device 90 degrees to be close to the body output jack where the preamp is, the hum became louder. If you moved it out straight out away from the body, the hum diminished significantly. 

Again, the hum wasn’t very loud once I positioned the device away from the body. Not so sure about what it might do if this was connected to an active electric guitar with a high gain amp. That could amplify the hum to unacceptable levels. 

Thanks to all who responded with kind words! Play on everyone

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CityFolk posted:

I look forward to a time when we can perhaps jam together in your favorite pub! How about somewhere in the Lake country? ??

That would be a nice aim, especially as I've just had a jam weekend in North Wales postponed indefinitely.

Prakash Wadhwani posted:WoW!! ... S1's right behind the Singers? No feedback??
Perhaps the S1's were not cranked up at all?
I do realize the lady's head is shielding the mic head from the S1, but nevertheless ... baffling!!

Would love to hear your views ...
 

Bose's 'portable PA' range (which includes the S1, L1 and F8) all have some pretty heavy duty DSP including some of the best anti-feedback algorithms in the known universe. I'm pretty sure they would work fine for a bit of gentle sound reinforcement used in that way (the L1 series are designed to be used behind the mics). Use cranked up? Well, as Scotty would probably have said "Ye canna beat the laws o physics Jim"

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Hi Prakash, we weren’t trying to fill a big area obviously so we weren’t cranked up a huge amount, but we were at about 1 o’clock on the S1’s channel volume with the mics and the ToneMatch set to mic. The guitars‘ volume was at or just shy of 12 o’clock. The speakers were set about 5 feet up on the stands slightly tilted inward and about 4 feet behind us and off to the side. The mics were pointing slightly outward, not right at the speaker, primarily so we could face each other when singing. The speakers were positioned on the poles just above where the mics were pointing which might’ve also helped reduce feedback. But we didn’t have any hint of feedback at all and it was covering our front yard nicely. Must be that Bose magic pixie dust? ??

I tried to increase the volume on the mics to experiment a bit before we started and I got to almost 3/4 of the way on the volume knob before just starting to get feedback. I was surprised at how far I could go. It was almost too loud unless we were trying to fill a big open area like a farmers market. In that case, we would probably put the S1s in front of us on either side tilted slightly inward so we could still hear a bit.

I think the secret is we've been using Shure SM 58A Beta mics for years which are high output, supercardioid mics and are very feedback resistant. Very little feedback with our L1/M2 setup too which we almost always put centered behind us.

While we love our L1, this setup’s convenience and flexibility are truly wonderful. We set this up in minutes, no cables, no separate mixer, no plugged into any power, wow!

Now, Prakash, about your comment that my wife’s head is shielding the mic from the speaker, are you implying the mic or speaker makes her look fat? ?? (Just kidding of course.)

As always, stay safe and healthy everyone and thanks for your kind comments (except for Prakash ??).

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CityFolk posted:

I think the secret is we've been using Shure SM 58A Beta mics for years which are high output, supercardioid mics and are very feedback resistant. Very little feedback with our L1/M2 setup too which we almost always put centered behind us.

While we love our L1, this setup’s convenience and flexibility are truly wonderful. We set this up in minutes, no cables, no separate mixer, no plugged into any power, wow!

Hi @CityFolk Like you, I love my Beta 58A - very nice sound (makes me wonder - is that really me?).

Thanks for the photo ... it gives me a good sense of your setup. I'm curious - what did you use to go wireless - guitars and mics?

Like you, I have an iPad attached to my mic stand and I love the sound of the S1 on a stand. To me that sounds way better than on the ground or a table.

So I am curious about one more thing - your setlist when you played on the porch. Can you share the list?

Cheers,

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troubador posted:I love the sound of the S1 on a stand. To me that sounds way better than on the ground or a table.
 

How do you think it changes the sound when on a stand? I know there is a switch in the pole socket, on the floor or a table the speaker is in 'half space' so the low end will be boosted by 6dB (in theory around 4dB in the real world) so I would would expect the DSP to increase the bass when to speaker is in free field. 

Personally I find the bass a little wayward with the S1 on a table top, I'll try them on stands when I eventually get back to gigging and see if that improves matters.

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To @troubador

For the mic wireless we use 2 Xvive U3s. For the guitars, I’ve been experimenting with a Xvive U2 and a similar device from another company called Getaria 2.4GHz wireless system which is much cheaper than the Xvive. We used the ToneMatch settings for mic and guitar on the appropriate channels.

I want to put a caveat here that, as you can see from our picture, we have a simple a compact setup. For a big electric band with drums spread out on a stage in larger venues, the more expensive and robust wireless systems may be a better route.

For guitar wireless, I’d lean towards the Xvive U2 as it seems higher quality, but I was looking for something cheaper ($40 US) for more casual home use too so I‘m trying out the Getaria as it got decent reviews. I couldn’t tell any difference in sound quality between the two. Of course, I didn’t stress the unit in terms of distance etc. 

We have much more gig experiences with the Xvive’s that have lasted on their battery power through 3 hour gigs with plenty to spare. The Getaria lasted through the 1.5 non stop performance in this case with no sign of giving out.

We’ve  been using the U3s for several gigs now and they have worked very well. Only had one issue with wireless interference at one venue that had a lot of LED lighting/wireless mixer access etc. on the stage.

Interestingly enough, it only affected one of the U3s, so I bet if I had the time to troubleshoot, I probably just needed to change its channel. I always have a XLR cable to use in case the wireless has an issue. There is no loss of signal or mic sound quality from the U3s. As a matter of fact, the U3 seems to have a stronger mic signal over a cable but maybe that’s my imagination.

In terms of a set list, we use the SetList Maker app (similar to OnSong, another great app) on our iPads which allows us to create specific sets, or it allows you to generate “Smart Lists” (a type of report) sorted by song title, or artist, or genre, when last performed, or by any custom tag or any other fields.

We display on our iPads a set list or a smart list of all our songs by title, and just select from the list randomly based on what the audience seems to gravitate to. That’s what we did in this case since it was a very casual performance. I’ve attached a pdf of our overall song list if  that’s of any interest. The songs we played includes Byrd’s/Petty/Fogelberg on the 12 string, on the 6 string Crosby Stills and Nash, Jason Mraz, Beatles, Norah Jones, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Tony Rice, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Alison Krauss, Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Cindy Lauper, What a Wonderful World, Old Crow Medicine Show etc. we are all over the place! ??

Finally, we’ve preferred putting the S1s on stands for better projection and feel that the sound is just more balanced overall. Other positions seem to be more bass heavy as Sam has pointed out and we like a balance for our acoustic based folk/country/bluegrass/jazz and vocals. We aren’t a dance band by any means ??. 

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Hi, Sam Spoons.

Sam Spoons posted:
? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? 

Bose's 'portable PA' range (which includes the S1, L1 and F8) all have some pretty heavy duty DSP including some of the best anti-feedback algorithms in the known universe. I'm pretty sure they would work fine for a bit of gentle sound reinforcement used in that way (the L1 series are designed to be used behind the mics). Use cranked up? Well, as Scotty would probably have said "Ye canna beat the laws o physics Jim"

I started a new discussion on this topic. Please see

Bose Portable PA systems and Feedback

Thanks,

ST

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CityFolk posted:

To @troubador

For the mic wireless we use 2 Xvive U3s. For the guitars, I’ve been experimenting with a Xvive U2 and a similar device from another company called Getaria 2.4GHz wireless system which is much cheaper than the Xvive. We used the ToneMatch settings for mic and guitar on the appropriate channels.

...

We display on our iPads a set list or a smart list of all our songs by title, and just select from the list randomly based on what the audience seems to gravitate to. That’s what we did in this case since it was a very casual performance. I’ve attached a pdf of our overall song list if  that’s of any interest. The songs we played includes Byrd’s/Petty/Fogelberg on the 12 string, on the 6 string Crosby Stills and Nash, Jason Mraz, Beatles, Norah Jones, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Tony Rice, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Alison Krauss, Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Cindy Lauper, What a Wonderful World, Old Crow Medicine Show etc. we are all over the place! ??

Finally, we’ve preferred putting the S1s on stands for better projection and feel that the sound is just more balanced overall. Other positions seem to be more bass heavy as Sam has pointed out and we like a balance for our acoustic based folk/country/bluegrass/jazz and vocals. We aren’t a dance band by any means ??. 

Thank you @CityFolk for taking the time to write out such a detailed response. Much appreciate that. I'm currently trying out a similar setup - XVive U2 and U3 ...

Nice to see your setlist ... I cover several of the pieces that are in your list.

Many thanks for sharing ...

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You’re most welcome. I feel like that Capital One bank card TV commercial when I ask, what’s in your set list? ??

What do you think of the Xvive’s?

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This post moved to S1 Pro with XVive U3

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CityFolk, I like the Getaria for the amount that I have used them. They are simple, no frills, and for wirelessly extending a signal from my S1 to the Alto extension speakers, they do the job well. I have not used them long enough to comment on battery life, but the connection they make with each other has been solid and free of interference. I also bought a pair of Kithouse 380C”s... I won’t list the features here but the Tx has several built in effects along with a earphone jack (I can monitor my performance if the band is particularly loud) and the Rx has Bluetooth to mix a backing track with your playing if so desired. Check out the Kithouse 380C... they are only about $20 more than the Getaria!  Cheers!