Hi Lee,
You're right: The SIGNAL/CLIP lights can go red before the LIMITER lights up yellow. The F1 Model 812 behaves differently than you might expect. I found this puzzling too.
Lee Wright posted:
Hi Guys,
This is about my 5th gig with the F1's & the first time I've used them in a good sized room (700 seat).
I'm having trouble with the limit light coming on on the inputs but not the main limit light.
SIGNAL/CLIP (red)
The SIGNAL/CLIP lights come on before clipping and may light up and stay on for up to a full second even if you not actually clipping the input. You can think of this as an early warning. It's actually okay if you see red.
LIMITER
The F1 Model 812 manages the signal to avoid going into LIMITING. That means that except under really extreme conditions you may never see the LIMIT light.
Here's a little excerpt from an article about the F1 Model 812
Volume Controls and Signal / Clip lights
Typically you will want to set your source (usually a mixer or T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine) to the maximum you can without clipping. On a mixer, this may be shown as unity or 0.
When setting the Volume Control on the F1 Model 812 you can turn up the Volume Control until you see solid red, and then turn it down a little. Occasional red flickers (up to a second long) are okay. This may start to happen at -5 dB before clipping or with transient peaks. You will see these to warn you when you are approaching clipping. If you see solid red then you may be clipping.
It is completely fine to turn up the Volume well beyond 12:00 o'clock if you need to.
After you have found the maximum volume available you can control the system volume at the source. You probably won't have to change this setting unless you use a different source.
You won't damage the system if the red lights are visible. The internal limiter will protect the system. You can tell when the limiter is working. The yellow limiter light will come on.
Source: F1 Model 812 Volume Controls and Clip Lights
It's odd because the performance just doesn't seem that loud. It's a trio with backing tracks. They're running their own sound & just sending me a FOH mix. It seems pretty compressed. Earlier in the night I'd EQ out a few bands to get rid of feedback during the speeches. I flattened the EQ out & that seemed to give me a bit more juice.
The compressed signal that includes the backing track is probably contributing to the early light-up of the SIGNAL/CLIP lights. (Seagullman-Tony addressed this in more detail above).
I've got 4 x EV ZXA1 subs stacked together in the centre. I've got the input on the F1 turned to about 5 O'Clock.
I looked at the manual for the Mackie DL 1608.
The maximum output is 21 dBu. It does seem a little surprising that you have to set the F1 Model 812 inputs that high. But if you're not hearing any distortion let's set that aside for now.
My mixer is pretty much maxed out (Mackie DL1608).
I just looked up the ZX1-Subs and their frequency response is
| Frequency Response (-3 dB) | 53 - 125 Hz |
The F1's are set to full range but I'm crossing them over at 80hz in my mixer.
I would try
- setting the crossover at 100 Hz on the mixer and
- set the F1 Model 812 EQ to WITH SUB. That sets the F1 Model 812 internal high-pass filter to 100 Hz.
Let the ZX1-Subs do all the heavy lifting. You may still see the red SIGNAL/CLIP lights on the F1 Model 812s but I hope, less frequently. It will be even less likely that you'll see the LIMITER lights. That's not a concern.
I can't actually hear any distortion though. Appreciate any thoughts.
And this is the heart of it. If you're not hearing any distortion, then things are probably fine.
Does that help?
ST
