Hi all, hope someone can help?
After much research and visits to PMT in Brm we decided to go
comapct and purchase a new Bosel L1 Model 2 2 Subs
Spent this morning sound checking out the system using our studio master mixer and a newly puchased Mackie ProFX8.
The faults described below happened on both mixers (at different times), using their own Mic and Audio leads.
We also changed the location of the PA and the direction it was facing
We’r not newbies to audio mixing / eq-ing, reverb settings etc but this has got me flustered!
The sound:
Separatley - vocals seem very low ,mini disk backing and Roland TD20 drums seem to be OK but only just!. When all 3 channels are combined in the mix the audio goes very thin and the Power light turns from Blue to Red and the TRIM light goes out. - clipping and audio knock out occurs.
Settings:
All active channel “gain” levels have been set correctly and even lowered to try and stop this “clipping”
The TRIM (power) level was set to less than a 1/4 power with absolutely no chance of turning it any higher without
some form of HF feedback!!! According to the manual and if overloading occurs the TRIM light should go from Green to Yellow to Red - ours goes from Flashing green - Solid Green then OFF !!! (Flashing Power Light Bue/Red)
Any help greatly appreciated - What a way to spen a Sunday!!!
Hi FAZE2011,
Thank you for joining the Forum.
quote:Originally posted by FAZE2011:
Hi all, hope someone can help?
After much research and visits to PMT in Brm we decided to go comapct and purchase a new Bosel L1 Model 2 2 Subs
if PMT in Brm is
http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/ind…/contact-birmingham/
then you will probably want to contact them if I am understanding the symptoms correctly.
But let’s see if we can figure out what is going on here.
quote:
Spent this morning sound checking out the system using our studio master mixer and a newly puchased Mackie ProFX8.
The faults described below happened on both mixers (at different times), using their own Mic and Audio leads.
We also changed the location of the PA and the direction it was facing
We’re not newbies to audio mixing / eq-ing, reverb settings etc but this has got me flustered!
The sound:
Separatley - vocals seem very low ,mini disk backing and Roland TD20 drums seem to be OK but only just!. When all 3 channels are combined in the mix the audio goes very thin and the Power light turns from Blue to Red and the TRIM light goes out. - clipping and audio knock out occurs.
EXACTLY how are you connecting the mixer to the Model II Power Stand.
DO NOT use one of these:
IF you are using some kind of y-adapter (two mono ¼ inch Tip-Sleeve jacks to one ¼ inch Tip-Ring-Sleeve jack) to take two outputs from your mixer to the Model II Power Stand this could be your problem with respect to the sound. The Model II Power Stand analog input is a balanced, mono input (Tip-Ring-Sleeve). If you are feeding it stereo, the left and right channels will probably cancel each other out. reference: Model II Power Stand Analog Input
Try running your microphone to the mixer. Pan the microphone channel all the way to the LEFT.
Take the mixer LEFT output (only) and run that to the Model II Power Stand analog input.
How does that sound?
If it is better than before than we have figured out what is going on.
Run all the inputs on the mixer panned hard LEFT and see if that is better.
quote:
Settings:
All active channel “gain” levels have been set correctly and even lowered to try and stop this “clipping”
The TRIM (power) level was set to less than a 1/4 power with absolutely no chance of turning it any higher without
some form of HF feedback!!!
If you are talking about the Model II Power Stand Analog input trim, a line level input as you may be getting from the mixer is doesn’t need to be set much beyond 3 or 4.
quote:
According to the manual and if overloading occurs the TRIM light should go from Green to Yellow to Red - ours goes from Flashing green - Solid Green then OFF !!! (Flashing Power Light Bue/Red)
Any help greatly appreciated - What a way to spen a Sunday!!!
I don’t recall ever seeing the trim light go off when there is a signal present. If changing the connections as I suggested above does not make things better, I think it’s time to call the dealer.
Here are some general notes for you.
L1® Model II in the wiki
Thanks very much for your quick respose to our post.
Yes we did use a Y adapter exactly as shown in your post!!! and we see know that was a big mistake. Your thoughts please on purchasing a Tonematch and scrapping the mixer!
We are unable to run the system tonite as it’s around 9.30pm But I will give it a shot tommorow. All active channels had the pan setting full left as you suggested.
Would you suggest I re-record all our (minidisk backing traxs into mono and then use a single cable from the MD layer into the mixer?
Maybe I had a brain dump here but looking back during todays test I used a x2 phono to x2 1/4" jacks (L&R) from the MD and inserted them into 2 separate channels on the mixer panning both channels hard left!
Roland TD20 on its own (Demo mode) performed quite well.
I will contact PMT birmingham in the morning to get their thoughts on this and let you know the outcome. We really appreciate you help on this. Thanks again
Hi FAZE2011,
quote:Originally posted by FAZE2011:
Thanks very much for your quick respose to our post.
Yes we did use a Y adapter exactly as shown in your post!!! and we see know that was a big mistake.
Well it’s good to know where the trouble was. Great start.
quote:
Your thoughts please on purchasing a Tonematch and scrapping the mixer!
Any amount of reading here will reveal that I really like the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine but before I go running on about that, Please tell us more about your music:
- How many are there in your show?
- What inputs do you need?
- What kind(s) of music you play?
- Where you do it (size, type of venue)?
- Who is there (audience) - how many, what are they doing while you are performing?
- Do you have a web site?
- If no web site, could you post a picture of your ensemble?
quote:
We are unable to run the system tonite as it’s around 9.30pm But I will give it a shot tommorow. All active channels had the pan setting full left as you suggested.
Would you suggest I re-record all our (minidisk backing traxs into mono and then use a single cable from the MD layer into the mixer?
Maybe I had a brain dump here but looking back during todays test I used a x2 phono to x2 1/4" jacks (L&R) from the MD and inserted them into 2 separate channels on the mixer panning both channels hard left!
I don’t think you have to re-record your backing trax. If you can mix them down to mono with the mixer you should be fine. You can do the same thing with the T1®. T1® Channel 4/5 takes two sides of a stereo signal and treats them as one mono input.
quote:
Roland TD20 on its own (Demo mode) performed quite well.
I will contact PMT birmingham in the morning to get their thoughts on this and let you know the outcome. We really appreciate you help on this. Thanks again
You are welcome.
Cheers from the left coast of Canada.
Good morning left coast of Canada! Middle of the UK Midlands here! Shropshire to be precise
Returned to PMT Brm this morning. Offending Y lead is in so many bits you’d need a microscope to see it!!! - PMT’s PA guru (Dave)checked out the power stand and thankfully all appears to be OK.
A single cable was then run from the mixer (Lft Ch) to the power stand. Suitable adjustments made on the mixer and SURPRISE!! all was OK, infact superb. Will be carrying out a second sound check tonite just to confirm all is OK.
Very many thanks for your advice and assistance
Best regards John - Telford UK
Hi John (FAZE2011),
That’s great news. I really appreciate that you came back to tell us how things turned out.
In case you haven’t seen it yet, there’s more for you in
L1® Model II in the wiki.
If you get a chance, please tell us more about your music.
Thanks!
quote:EXACTLY how are you connecting the mixer to the Model II Power Stand.
DO NOT use one of these:
IF you are using some kind of y-adapter (two mono ¼ inch Tip-Sleeve jacks to one ¼ inch Tip-Ring-Sleeve jack) to take two outputs from your mixer to the Model II Power Stand this could be your problem with respect to the sound. The Model II Power Stand analog input is a balanced, mono input (Tip-Ring-Sleeve). If you are feeding it stereo, the left and right channels will probably cancel each other out. reference: Model II Power Stand Analog Input
ST knocks it out of the park!
I don't know how you do it.
You deserve a medal for all you do ST.
I know it’s crazy, I’m starting to think ST is part man part computer… and I mean that in a good way !!
Hey ST...I find it really interesting how these forum topics from years ago can still be relevant today. I digress...
This topic (and the wiki) has been very helpful to me. I'm planning on moonlighting as a casual dj with my Bose L1 Model 2 system in between solo acoustic gigs.
So I'm running my Komplete Audio 6 Audio Interface into the Analog input. (My dj software is the Tractor LE 2 that came free with the interface).
I was wondering why there were some phasing issues going on and after reading your post and changing the output signal to mono it has fixed it. Thank you!
I'm using a similar cable to the one mentioned in the wiki under the heading "Can a stereo signal be used with the analog input?". It says do NOT use this cable in the analog input but can I clarify that this is only if you are running a stereo signal? If you convert it to mono then can I conclude it is ok to use this cable to go from audio interface to the L1 analog input?
This is probably really obvious but I like to ask even the dumb questions as I'm always keen to get the most and the best from my gear. Speaking of which, and assuming this set up is "ok" wold you recommend a cable with 3 TRS connectors rather than ones with just a TS?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Faze2011,
Ah yes the good old stereo into balanced mono gotcha. Been caught myself with that. As for trim. I've never had to set mine past 1 O'Clock. I mostly use a standard mixer rather than a ToneMatch although we do have one of them. I always keep one of these adapters in the L1 bag then you can use a standard XLR out from your mixer.
I just run the L1 off the left channel & make sure everything is panned left. If you're mixer has stereo ins then you can instead use a pair of the mono inputs. Some mixers like my Allen & Heath ZED have a mono out which is handy.
Hope this helps.