Hi there, I’m back to playing after a 4-month hiatus following the end of my duo. I’ve done several solo gigs recently, and really kind of like it. Anyhoo, this falls into the ‘juggling between the map and the territory’ category of gig prep.
I am using my L1 Model II double bass system.
I was hired by two separate groups to play background music for their dinner events, in the same local venue: an oblong room that holds 150. The first group placed me in the center of the long wall, the second in a far corner.
Upshot: center placement better! While I know this is an obvious point for some, I think it’s good to revisit the basics and for me, to remember to be a bit more proactive in influencing room arrangements!
Neither spot was perfect: the long wall spot was shallow, meaning the L1 was more to my side than I like. The corner, however, sucked. I placed the L1 off-center re the corner, pointing it down the room at a slight angle (which has worked in smaller oblong rooms.) Well, with an over-capacity crowd, this suboptimal placement delivered plenty weird audio artifact, especially on my six-string,which is usually my shining star of stability.
- I was using a touch of Flange 3 and a tad of delay on that guitar, which usually allows its natural tone to shine
- I got a strange, woofy low feedback and had to roll off the low end quite a bit
- Wasn’t super happy with the sound overall and I really think it had to do with my placement relative to the unit/corner… sort of an odd envelope, surrounding by tables full of people.
I should note that, though I was sweating a bit over the sound and hitting the odd clam due to being somewhat distracted and worried (oh and there was the one man who said, "Hey, too bad we couldn’t hear you two tables away!)-- the client was quite happy and said lots of people had made a point of complimenting the music.
If I had to do it again, I’d ask for the long wall spot at the second gig, too. Not sure there is a really good placement in such a room when full.
NOTE: This photo and the next are from the second gig with problematic location. I was avoiding putting the L1 too close to any table.
Mary
From the far end, during gig:
Center placement works much better, and I enjoyed my own music more! This was during sound check; still a room full of people eating and talking, but the sound was much more pleasant and wafty.
Thanks for sharing, Mary. Nice room! Every room has its challenges.
Hi Tom,
Well, no doubt the conversation has moved on from this sort of situation. I guess I’ve been away a while!
In other news, we’re getting an L1 Compact! My husband Kip will be joining me for some gigs, and each of us will take on smaller gigs now and then, so… shopping opportunity!
Mary
Hi Mary,
How nice to hear from you. I’ve been meaning to write to ask you to pop in here to bring us up to date.
quote:Originally posted by MBanshee:
Hi there, I’m back to playing after a 4-month hiatus following the end of my duo. I’ve done several solo gigs recently, and really kind of like it.
With freedom comes great responsibility. I heard a new word tonight. “Blursing” (blessing and a curse).
quote:
Anyhoo, this falls into the ‘juggling between the map and the territory’ category of gig prep.
How appropriate is this turn of phrase juggling between the map and the territory .
quote:
I am using my L1 Model II double bass system.
I was hired by two separate groups to play background music for their dinner events, in the same local venue: an oblong room that holds 150. The first group placed me in the center of the long wall, the second in a far corner.
That’s really neat, being able to play the same challenging room twice from different vantage points. Thanks for coming to tell us about it.
quote:
Upshot: center placement better! While I know this is an obvious point for some, I think it’s good to revisit the basics and for me, to remember to be a bit more proactive in influencing room arrangements!
This is a good reminder Mary. I’ve always been very proactive on the matter of room arrangements. If there is no permanent stage or installed sound system, then there is usually some room to move - pardon the pun.
If people hold us responsible for the show (and they do) then I think that it is our responsibility to tell folks what we think will work best. They can prevail against us, but at least we will have given them the information.
I used to assume the answer to questions would be “no” (can we move this or that…?) and by failing to ask, I guaranteed the result. No more. No harm in asking.
Sorry for the lecture, but I feel very strongly abouut this.
quote:
Neither spot was perfect: the long wall spot was shallow, meaning the L1 was more to my side than I like.
I can relate, but I’ve also found that I can do very well with the Model II beside me if needs be. I can usually deal with excessive low end response (guitar too close to the B1s), by moving the B1s. I just have to remember that the B1s don’t have to be nestled in with the Model II Power Stand.
quote:
The corner, however, sucked. I placed the L1 off-center re the corner, pointing it down the room at a slight angle (which has worked in smaller oblong rooms.) Well, with an over-capacity crowd, this suboptimal placement delivered plenty weird audio artifact, especially on my six-string,which is usually my shining star of stability.
Can’t quite tell from the pictures, but were the B1s over in the corner? Even if I must set up in a corner, I’ll typically move the B1s away from the corner to get a more neutral bass response. This is where having a longer B1 cable can help. Longer B1 cables
quote:
- I was using a touch of Flange 3 and a tad of delay on that guitar, which usually allows its natural tone to shine
- I got a strange, woofy low feedback and had to roll off the low end quite a bit
Broken record… sorry, this is when I would move the B1s before changing the EQ.
quote:
- Wasn’t super happy with the sound overall and I really think it had to do with my placement relative to the unit/corner… sort of an odd envelope, surrounding by tables full of people.
I hope you get a chance to play that room again. If you can’t get a spot half-way down the long wall, then maybe you can set up half-way across the short wall and shoot straight down the length of the room.
quote:
I should note that, though I was sweating a bit over the sound and hitting the odd clam due to being somewhat distracted and worried (oh and there was the one man who said, "Hey, too bad we couldn’t hear you two tables away!)–
There’s always a critic.
quote:
the client was quite happy and said lots of people had made a point of complimenting the music.
If I had to do it again, I’d ask for the long wall spot at the second gig, too. Not sure there is a really good placement in such a room when full.
If you map out a room and figure out a place where you have the shortest distance to the person farthest away, you’ll often end up half-way down the length of the long wall.
quote:
NOTE: This photo and the next are from the second gig with problematic location. I was avoiding putting the L1 too close to any table.
Mary
We end up performing in modern-day (last 40 years) multi-function rooms, and these seem never to have been designed to support live performance. They handle ingress and egress, fire exits and proximity to washrooms, and kitchens, traffic patterns for servers and occasionally some sound dampening. But I can’t recall ever being in a room like this where there had been any consideration for live performance.
I’m not complaining. It is what it is. But because of that, we have to be experts managing our sound as well as our music.
Despite the warts and bumps we get along the way, I still find that the Model II makes it easier to deliver good if not great sound, and for a lot less effort and guessing than with anything I had used before the L1®.
Great to hear from you Mary.
I wouldn’t say that the conversation has moved on. Sound problems happen in most rooms.
I actually don’t like the long wall sometimes since I worry about folks hearing good highs at the far sides. That said, the short wall and the corner can be a problem. If I have low-end problems, I usually start by making sure the B1 isn’t directly in a corner or at least moving it a bit to see if I can get out of the bass node that’s causing the woof. If that doesn’t help much, then I try flipping the phase switch on my guitar preamp. (If you’re using the Aura, it’s on the side. I wish the T1 had this too.) If that doesn’t help enough, then I look for the note where the guitar is prone to feeding back and notch that out with the parametric EQ on the T1 just wide and deep enough to alleviate the woof. You can use the tuner to identify the note that wants to feedback. (I also use the auto feedback switch on the Aura I have to notch out feedback.) If I’m still having problems then I cut bass on the main EQ. I love the B1 (and B2,) but they can be a bit woofy for an acoustic guitar. The Compact is a little nicer for acoustic guitar on the low end. You may have been able to go with just one B1 in that room as well.
I also notice that the beams in that room come down quite a ways. They can mess with the bass in weird ways. I’ve played in a room with those where the bass was loud where I was and then quiet just past the first beam. That may have been why someone two tables away said they couldn’t hear you, although I bet there were other reasons too.
[edited to add “one” B1 at the end of the second paragraph]
Hi ST!
Long time! Oh, most of what you say about room arrangements et al is so true, and well known to me. I do tend to take charge of the music space before gig (actually, usually before that by email). I’ve been off my game and did not deal proactively, here.
B1 placement, however… hey, that is definitely IT and thanks for the hint! They were on my side of the L1 because I did not want them to be in the corner. Did not know they would react like that near the guitar, and it actually happened to some degree in the other spot, too, as I’d put them on my side. (Handy place to put stuff, sorry!) Sounds like a longer cable is in order, too.
After all these years, I have learned something about my rig! Thank you very much!
Mary
Tom,
More handy insights. Thanks, I am glad I posted, because this is indeed a refresher course. I wondered about phase cancellation, but had forgotten about the switches on my Fishman units. Don’t think I have an auto-feedback switch on them, though.
Darn thing was, with the room empty, everything sounded pretty good at sound check! With 150 people-plus in the room, the lurking problems were amplified.
I knew the corner was problematic, and if I had it to do over, would have moved the table next to me a few more feet to get away further.
Having been in ensembles for the last 14 years where I was the ‘bass and drums’, I have developed a more low-end approach to my guitar playing to a) balance the melody and b) avoid the midrangey thing, too. I like good low end and my three instruments (6-string, 12-string, cittern) all have it in spades (tuning to that low D bass helps!). So, I like my stack o’ B1s and wish I could trade 'em for a B2 (test drove one, cool!) AND, I do watch for the boomy thing and back off from it. I try for sonorous low end, clear mids, crisp highs, now mostly to set off my aging but still serviceable voice!
Thank you, I appreciate the advice! I can definitely improve L1/B1 placement, and my awareness of phase issues.
Mary