Hello everybody. We are planning to do a little busking tour in Italy with our band which is a very quiet one (mostly we play bossanova and other jazzlike clean-guitar-sound songs). The band consists of: drums (no need for reinforcement), bass (can go to S1 Pro I guess), clean guitar with some battery powered multieffect, and vocal. I'm planning to buy a second S1 Pro for that because we need more power and more inputs. However, T1 is unfortunately not battery-powered.
So I was thinking that if we place both S1 Pros in the same spot and just play without a mixer, that way we would have four inputs. Do you think it's a good option (to place them in one spot) or do you have a better idea? I was also thinking about daisy-chaining, but that would mean occupying one input of the second S1. Or can you run a line-out from one S1 to another one's aux-in (third 3,5" input) so that you could have the first two inputs free?
Hello everybody. We are planning to do a little busking tour in Italy with our band which is a very quiet one (mostly we play bossanova and other jazzlike clean-guitar-sound songs). The band consists of: drums (no need for reinforcement), bass (can go to S1 Pro I guess), clean guitar with some battery powered multieffect, and vocal. I'm planning to buy a second S1 Pro for that because we need more power and more inputs. However, T1 is unfortunately not battery-powered.
Thanks for all the great information.
So I was thinking that if we place both S1 Pros in the same spot and just play without a mixer, that way we would have four inputs. Do you think it's a good option (to place them in one spot)
That sounds like a great idea. And it's also a reasonable thing to run them separated. You don't need to have all the sound sources coming through both S1 Pro systems if they aren't too far apart.
or do you have a better idea? I was also thinking about daisy-chaining, but that would mean occupying one input of the second S1. Or can you run a line-out from one S1 to another one's aux-in (third 3,5" input)
That's an interesting idea. It would probably work if you got the right cables. But, I'd keep everything separate (your original idea) because you'll probably get better gain-before-feedback.
so that you could have the first two inputs free?
Or is there a good small battery-powered mixer?
Thank you!
Definitely try it things without a mixer first. You could end up with a nice simple approach without the added complexity of more cables and another device.
I also like using my Behringer 1002B (A fine little mixer for about $100) running on rechargeable 9V batteries to drive two S1 Pro systems.
And you can get "creative":
1) Mix the vocal panned left, left output from mixer to One Channel on first S1 - use reverb and Tonematch for voice (if it sounds better than "flat"). Use EQ on mixer first. (1/4" TRS to XLR or 1/4" TRS balanced cable)
2) Mix the Bass and Guitar panned right, right output from mixer to 2nd Channel on first S1. Tonematch flat -- use EQ on mixer first. (1/4" TRS to XLR or 1/4" TRS balanced cable)
3) Daisy Chain first S1 to 2nd One. The instructions to do that are on this site somewhere.
And still have 2 more audio input channels available, another channel for playing an MP3 player, NON Apple phone, etc. for your music between "sets" and/or during setup.
PS: And by using the mixer to consolidate all of your mixing, mixing and master leveling is all done at one location instead of having to run back and forth, following wires and leaning down to find the right channel to tweak the mix when necessary.
For me, that's worth carrying one extra small, light piece that fits WITH its cables into an old leather laptop computer case that I had lying around.
That I've already tried and it sounds really good! It was just in my room though so the level wasn't that high.
But that's also interesting: I suppose that S1 runs full spectrum from 20Hz, right? Because I've been imagining that it's somewhat mainly for acoustic/clean electric guitars and for vocal (or anything else which goes into a microphone). But can it be said that it really doesn't matter? As for other direct instruments like bass, synth, keys... it's all the same for S1, isn't it?
Bose S1 Pro Frequency Response ( /-3 dB) 62 Hz – 17 kHz
You won't get thumping bass out of them but for an acoustic act there's sufficient bottom end.
Of course, the fundamental frequencies on my 5 string bass (LOW B) is 31Hz while my 6 string fretless bass "bottoms out" at 25Hz for the low "A" string.
Hi! So the time has come to buy a second S1 Pro and I'd like to revisit the topic of two S1 Pros for a relatively quiet band for busking before I make the purchase.
Would you please have a quick look at this recent video of ours and tell me if this music, this loud, with this many instruments (apart from drums which will play only acoustically) can be nicely reinforced at good levels for busking with JUST two S1 Pros?
We have a passive bass guitar, some battery-powered Roland synth for piano and pads, active el gtr, and vocal - all of this into two S1 Pros (with or without a mixer).
A sidenote: Is it so that, academically speaking, the only potential concern is level? I suppose that the amount of instruments does not matter at all, right?
And even if this was totally fine, is there any nice battery-powered subwoofer that could enhance our sound?
Sorry it's the first time we'll be doing the sound ourselves and it's my responsibility to arrange this.
Thanks for sharing your video. I enjoyed hearing you.
nightoul posted:
Hi! So the time has come to buy a second S1 Pro and I'd like to revisit the topic of two S1 Pros for a relatively quiet band for busking before I make the purchase.
Would you please have a quick look at this recent video of ours and tell me if this music, this loud, with this many instruments (apart from drums which will play only acoustically) can be nicely reinforced at good levels for busking with JUST two S1 Pros?
We have a passive bass guitar, some battery-powered Roland synth for piano and pads, active el gtr, and vocal - all of this into two S1 Pros (with or without a mixer).
A sidenote: Is it so that, academically speaking, the only potential concern is level?
Here are a few things to consider.
Two identical loudspeakers placed side-by-side playing the same content are not much louder than one. You can expect up to 3 dB more sound pressure level. You will hear a difference, but not much.
Using two loudspeakers is beneficial when you separate them, so you have two sound fields.
Example: If one S1 Pro system can cover an attentive audience of 25-50 people, two S1 Pro systems can cover two attentive audiences of 25-50. If the two theoretical audiences are side-by-side in front and to the sides of you, this works well.
This is why most small PA systems use two loudspeakers, one on each side of the stage.
Using two S1 Pro systems won't make the sound louder, but if you position them appropriately, you can reach a wider audience.
I suppose that the amount of instruments does not matter at all, right?
The amount of instruments matters
For monitoring: The more instruments there are, the harder it will be for the players to hear themselves distinctly in the mix. If that's not an issue now, adding a second S1 Pro should be fine.
As you add more microphones, the gain-before-feedback goes down. That is, your overall system tends to be more prone to feedback as you add microphones. If that's not a problem for you now, then adding a second S1 Pro will not be an issue (assuming you have the S1 Pro systems aimed so the sound fields do not overlap).
And even if this was totally fine, is there any nice battery-powered subwoofer that could enhance our sound?
There's been a great deal of discussion about a battery-powered sub-woofer. See:
So far we had no issues with either feedback or monitoring but we also had a bass amp and a guitar amp. So I suppose that the battery-powered sub will be good for the bass but also for its monitoring. The el gtr monitoring will have to suffice from the PA.
Just a few details:
The gain-before-feedback gets worse only when adding mics? We will only have one mic for the vocal. Everything else will be TS instrument cables into mixer/PA.
Also I suppose that when both S1 Pros are mounted, that's preferable in terms of the area covered, right?
Thanks again. It's a pleasure to read your explanations, ST.
So far we had no issues with either feedback or monitoring but we also had a bass amp and a guitar amp. So I suppose that the battery-powered sub will be good for the bass but also for its monitoring.
A subwoofer won't do much for monitoring except for the bass player. Most of the frequencies that are useful for the rest of the band are in the mid-high frequencies, above the range you will get from a subwoofer.
The el gtr monitoring will have to suffice from the PA. Just a few details: The gain-before-feedback gets worse only when adding mics?
Hi all, So we've done our first completely unplugged rehearsal. Two S1 Pros and a Behringer Xenyx1002B. I really liked the mixer, however, I noticed that when my acoustic guitar went into the S1 through the mixer, the sound was a bit worse. So instead I put it directly into S1 and it was good as expected. (I've been playing acoustic all my life so maybe I'm just sensitive to the sound of it and insensitive to other instruments - as they sound from a PA, that is.)
So would you say that since the mixer is the "cheapest" element in our chain, it compromises the sound (at least, as I've noticed, of the acoustic guitar)? Is it as simple as that? I was just wondering if this is something that, in your experience, is expectable and generally it can be said that acoustic guitar sounds better when plugged directly into S1 as opposed to through a budget mixer. Or is it irrelevant and I should look elsewhere for explanation?
It also got me thinking once more about the S1: since it has a reverb built-in, is there actually an A/D and D/A converter inside the S1? Or just what they call a DSP (and a reverb is only added to the signal)?
Thanks for telling us about your recent experiences.
nightoul posted:
Hi all, So we've done our first completely unplugged rehearsal. Two S1 Pros and a Behringer Xenyx1002B. I really liked the mixer, however, I noticed that when my acoustic guitar went into the S1 through the mixer, the sound was a bit worse. So instead I put it directly into S1 and it was good as expected. (I've been playing acoustic all my life so maybe I'm just sensitive to the sound of it and insensitive to other instruments - as they sound from a PA, that is.)
So would you say that since the mixer is the "cheapest" element in our chain, it compromises the sound (at least, as I've noticed, of the acoustic guitar)? Is it as simple as that?
Every time you add or remove something from your signal chain, there is an opportunity to alter the sound. Sometimes you'll hear the difference; sometimes you won't.
It's commonly said, "A chain is only as strong as the weakest link."
However, we can't draw the conclusion that the "cheapest" element is the weakest link. It could be that adding the extra gain stages or signal processing changes the sound, and it's not to your liking.
I was just wondering if this is something that, in your experience, is expectable and generally it can be said that acoustic guitar sounds better when plugged directly into S1 as opposed to through a budget mixer. Or is it irrelevant and I should look elsewhere for explanation?
We add and remove components in the signal chain and draw conclusions. That's what we do.
I think we can reliably say "I like this better when ....", but it's much harder to conclude causality.
Go with what works best for you. That's sometimes a compromise between the sound, ease-of-use, what the audience hears, what you hear, and lots of other factors.
It also got me thinking once more about the S1: since it has a reverb built-in, is there actually an A/D and D/A converter inside the S1? Or just what they call a DSP (and a reverb is only added to the signal)?
This is another one of those conversations that can swirl around endlessly. We can't alter the signal path within the S1 Pro, be we can alter the amount of gain, bass, treble, reverb, and switch between the ToneMatch Presets.
Knowing what's happening inside the (appropriately named) black box isn't necessary. Within the S1 Pro, you'd find lots of conversions and processing. But since we can't change the signal path, we can only observe what we put in and what comes out.
Were you using the guitar Tonematch setting in the S1? If so, that does make a difference. They do a lot of processing within the S1 when the two Tonematch settings are used.
I usually run my acoustic guitar into my effects pedals and THEN into the mixer (1002b) and run the S1s flat (no tonematch) with a touch of extra high and rolled off low EQ (the S1s tend to produce too much bass for my taste) and am quite satisfied with the sound.
You COULD get the best of both worlds by mixing everything but your acoustic through the mixer into one channel on one S1 (Tonematch off). Plug your guitar into the other channel of that S1 (Tonematch=guitar) and then daisy chain to the other S1 using a TRS to TRS (or XLR) balanced cable.
Hello everybody. We are planning to do a little busking tour in Italy with our band which is a very quiet one (mostly we play bossanova and other jazzlike clean-guitar-sound songs).
@nightoul I'm curious - where do you busk? I was in Toscana last year (stayed in Lucca and Montecatini Terme) and was told that I need a permit to busk.
@Chet I actually have two acoustics, one of which I use with the ToneMatch, the other one without. This one was with.
May I ask which effect pedals do you use with your acoustic?
And what you suggested with mixing everything but the acoustic, that's cool and it also occured to me. I normally play bass and the acoustic only with the singer (the rest of the band rests, haha) so I might do it like that.
@troubador Oh we haven't been there yet. Probably in March. We're all originally from the Czech Republic, only the singer has recently moved to Bologna. Thanks for the headsup, I'll definitely probe into that!
Thanks!