It is great to see that Bose is now supporting the following formats:
Supported audio format: Dolby Atmos®, Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD
Can Bose please confirm if the Soundbar supports Dolby Digital Plus which most streaming services use I.e. for the non Atmos movies, will the Soundbar take the 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus stream with the higher bit rate rather than defaulting to the older Dolby 5.1 stream?
Thank you.
I have this question too, and Bose support couldn't give me an answer on it. They just tell me that if the content is Dolby Atmos, I will hear the height channels.
In the UK, Sky is delivering Dolby Atmos over Dolby Digital Plus for their sports and movies. And BT uses Dolby Digital Plus for BT Sport Ultimate 4K to deliver Dolby Atmos too. So if the Bose Soundbar 900 can't support Dolby Digital Plus, it cuts out half of my intended content for Dolby Atmos as I'm limited to using Dolby TrueHD, Atmos PCM, or direct passthrough from my Xbox to receive Dolby Atmos from my Blu-Ray or Netflix.
I know the Bose Soundbar 700 can't support Dolby Digital Plus. I've tested it multiple times and it just ends up with no audio. The intended result is the soundbar should ignore the Atmos metadata and downscale the side channels but it doesn't. However, it does support Linear PCM 7.1 so I know it's not a 7.1 issue with the soundbar, it's just a licencing problem and something that didn't choose to support.
Hoping Bose can clear this up soon as I do want to pre-order the soundbar once I can find a suitable TV mount for it as it would be an easy swap as I already own the Bass Module 700 and Surround Speakers. I don't want the SONOS ARC as it's too much effort replacing the entire setup again.
I agree with all of the above.
Hopefully some of the early adopters / reviewers will be able to confirm what the Dolby Atmos stream requirements are.
It is also surprising that they dropped support for DTS given the Soundbar 700 supported this.
It is purely down to licensing rather than a hardware limitation on the 900.
I too have the full 700 setup but am waiting for answers to the above before I buy the 900.
That really doesn't surprise me as DTS was dropped from the 300 and 500, so it made sense that the 900 continued the trend of not licencing DTS. With almost every streaming service not supporting DTS, TV channels not supporting it either, and a lot of Blu-Rays not including the DTS mix, I kind of get the decision to drop it. And most Blu-Ray players should have the ability to reprocess the DTS audio into a Dolby Digital or Linear PCM 7.1 output for your soundbar if they are mixed in DTS only so you shouldn't miss out on surround sound or notice any difference.
I'll let you know if I hear anything back from Bose. I have asked to be provided to another tier who may have more information about the product.
Hi, I'm back again.
Just to let you know, I heard back from someone at Bose.
They confirmed that the Smart Soundbar 900 supports Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital, including Linear PCM 5.1 and 7.1. They confirmed that Dolby Atmos is only supported with Dolby TrueHD or Linear PCM, meaning you won't be able to receive Dolby Atmos from Dolby Digital Plus content such as Sky Q, BT Sport Ultimate, or Netflix.
Their answer to not supporting Dolby Digital Plus is the additional side-channels. They mentioned that any content which supports Dolby Digital Plus for the 7.1 channels must also support Dolby Digital for 5.1 outputting, which is a fair point. However, they do agree that it does provide the oversight that some services use Dolby Digital Plus to provide Dolby Atmos, such as Sky Sports in the UK and can only pass my feedback to the engineering team for consideration.
So what it appears down to is licencing.
I can understand the Bose Soundbar 700 not supporting Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus as it's a 5.1 system. Realistically, with a soundbar, you're probably not going to hear a difference. However, with the 900, Dolby TrueHD was only added for Dolby Atmos, and they still refused to add support for Dolby Digital Plus, which cuts out the support for the other half of Dolby Atmos.
I'll probably wait until it's released and see if they firmware upgrade it. If they don't, I might bite the bullet and get a SONOS Arc. I really didn't want to, but I've waited for Bose to announce their version, and it's poor.
There is no DTS support!
How do I watch movies with DTS now?
:
If this is true, then it means that the Soundbar 900 doesn’t support Dolby Atmos for all the streaming services (like Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, etc).
Those services use metadata in the DD streams for the Atmos information (to which speakers certain sounds should go to).
: As I read the Soundbar 900 only supports Dolby Atmos via Dolby TrueHD, then is my statement above correct about the streaming services?
If it is true, then it is a serious miss from Bose 😞 Most of people use streaming services nowadays to watch their favorite movies or series. I think there is even more people using streaming services instead of a Blu-ray player with Dolby Atmos (Dolby TrueHD) enabled Blu-ray movies.
To even further strengthen my statement, the Soundbar 900 is not a real Atmos Soundbar, because it can only be used in certain conditions (Blu-ray players with Atmos enabled content). Streaming services are excluded.
Why would someone switch from the Soundbar 700 to the 900 if Atmos cannot be used with Netflix for example?!
I really would like to change to the 900, but now I don’t see a reason to do so.
You're bang on.
Dolby Digital Plus isn't supported. I had it confirmed through Bose and had it double checked to be sure. They told me that you would only receive Dolby Atmos from Dolby TrueHD or Linear PCM content. This means if you wanted to use Dolby Atmos from Netflix or Disney as an example, you would need to use a TV, Blu-Ray player, or Apple TV, which delivers the audio through Linear PCM with the Atmos metadata on top as none of these supports Dolby TrueHD.
Dolby Digital Plus is the standard for TV and streaming as the bitrate is much lower. There is no way we're ever going to see Dolby TrueHD over satellite or streaming. It pretty much makes the soundbar useless for most Atmos content, and the Bose TrueSpace just isn't enough to sway users, myself included.
Maybe this could all change near launch or afterwards. I'm assuming the hardware is capable, and Bose could add it through firmware. But there is no way I'm going to purchase a soundbar that can only deliver half of the Atmos content. It needs to be all guaranteed or nothing.
There is indeed a way to encode the Atmos information into a LPCM stream. It is called Dolby MAT 2.0.
In the past, the Dolby Metadata-Enhanced Audio Transmission (MAT) encoder resided in a Blu-ray player to pack the variable bit-rate Dolby TrueHD bitstreams for transmission over the fixed bit-rate HDMI. A MAT decoder was subsequently used in an AVR to unpack the Dolby TrueHD bitstreams. With the introduction of Dolby Atmos, we have expanded this technology to support encoding of Dolby Atmos content as lossless pulse-code modulation (PCM) audio.
A key benefit of Dolby MAT 2.0 is that Dolby Atmos object audio can be live encoded and transmitted from a source device with limited latency and processing complexity. Among the possible sources are broadcast set-top boxes and game consoles. The Dolby MAT 2.0 decoder in an AVR outputs the object-based audio and its metadata for further processing. The Dolby MAT 2.0 container is scalable and leverages the full potential of the HDMI audio pipeline.
If Bose supports this, then also the source (like a TV) needs to support sending the Atmos information embedded into the LPCM stream.
Furthermore I am not sure if Netflix supports this way of sending audio. What I mean is that Netflix will show you the Atmos logo above some titles if the source (TV for example) is set to LPCM assuming it supports Dolby MAT 2.0
edit
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I did some further reading to check the LPCM format with Dolby MAT 2.0.
In my case I own an LG C8 tv from 2018. If I set the audio output to PCM out it is limited to 2.0 only 😞 However it does support Dolby Atmos via DD if I set the Audio output to Auto. (I just tested it at my brothers TV. He has an LG C8 as well, but he owns a Canton Soundbar which supports Atmos via DD . Netflix also shows the Atmos logo in his case)
If I want to have Dolby Atmos on the Soundbar 900 I need at least a LG C9 tv from 2019. This TV has additional options to set the digital output to either Passthrough (E-Arc) or LPCM (multi-channel PCM)
wrote:There is no DTS support!
How do I watch movies with DTS now?
As & has mentioned, you would have to make sure your TV has eARC and outputs/passthroughs LPCM 7.1. If it does, then any device connected to your TV, like your Blu-ray, can decode the DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 to LPCM 7.1 and you will get full lossless audio.
I explained this and some more in the guide I made last year to help people get the most out of their Soundbar 500 / 700. So there are workarounds.
Personally, I do not understand the reasons why bose decided to support Dolby TrueHD and not Dolby Digital Plus. But as it supports Atmos via LPCM, it won't really matter... unless your TV:
Maybe other companies will start making a version of the "4K Arcana 18Gbps" (mentioned in the guide) to create more affordable solutions to get around these issues.
Great discussion here and excellent guide NeonsNight.
As others have stated, most people will be watching Atmos related content via Netflix, DisneyPlus etc. so let’s hope the Soundbar will be able to process this audio (via the DD ) stream in the future.
If not, it looks like I will need to hang on to my Soundbar 700 a little longer.
It would be great to get an official word from Bose on this thread.
wrote:Great discussion here and excellent guide NeonsNight.
Thanks 🙂
wrote:As others have stated, most people will be watching Atmos related content via Netflix, DisneyPlus etc. so let’s hope the Soundbar will be able to process this audio (via the DD ) stream in the future.
Bose has never added new format support in the past, not once. Even on their $4,000 systems. So I doubt that will happen.
wrote:If not, it looks like I will need to hang on to my Soundbar 700 a little longer.
Well, the Soundbar 700 doesn't support DD and don't forget that DD is still a lossy audio format with only a bit more information than standard DD. LPCM 7.1 via eARC on the 500, 700, & 900 is still the best option.
Think of Dolby & DTS as proprietary zip files (because they are a type of encryption to reduce size) which some devices can read the contents even when zipped. LPCM 7.1 sends the soundbar the contents of that zip file as it is decoded by another device that can read the contents instead of only passing on the zip file.
wrote:It would be great to get an official word from Bose on this thread.
Would be nice 🙂
wrote:
wrote:There is no DTS support!
How do I watch movies with DTS now?
Personally, I do not understand the reasons why bose decided to support Dolby TrueHD and not Dolby Digital Plus. But as it supports Atmos via LPCM, it won't really matter... unless your TV:
- doesn't have eARC
- can't decode & convert other formats to LPCM 7.1/Atmos LPCM 7.1
- can't pass through LPCM 7.1/Atmos LPCM 7.1
Maybe other companies will start making a version of the "4K Arcana 18Gbps" (mentioned in the guide) to create more affordable solutions to get around these issues.
Technically, it does matter.
Although Linear PCM will be the cleanest audio, you still need support for codecs which matter such as Dolby Digital Plus. Dolby Digital has only been left on the soundbar as a way to gain surround sound through the optical connection. But DTS and other 7.1 solutions can be reencoded as LPCM 7.1 which is why they were dropped.
The problem with Dolby Digital Plus Atmos is you can't change it to a Linear PCM format. You can reencode Dolby Digital Plus, but not when it has Atmos metadata. The only way around this is to use a source device such as the Apple TV which can take the audio directly from the streaming app and present it in Dolby MAT which is technically Linear PCM 7.1 with Atmos metadata, just wrapped in a Dolby Atmos format.
As far as I'm aware, no other streaming device does this such as the Amazon Fire TV or Roku as they all use Dolby Digital Plus and if your TV can reencode audio as a Linear PCM 7.1 format, it won't do it for Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos.
wrote:
wrote:But as it supports Atmos via LPCM, it won't really matter... unless your TV:
- doesn't have eARC
- can't decode & convert other formats to LPCM 7.1/Atmos LPCM 7.1
- can't pass through LPCM 7.1/Atmos LPCM 7.1
Technically, it does matter.
Although Linear PCM will be the cleanest audio, you still need support for codecs which matter such as Dolby Digital Plus. Dolby Digital has only been left on the soundbar as a way to gain surround sound through the optical connection. But DTS and other 7.1 solutions can be reencoded as LPCM 7.1 which is why they were dropped.(..)
The only way around this is to use a source device such as the Apple TV which can take the audio directly from the streaming app and present it in Dolby MAT which is technically Linear PCM 7.1 with Atmos metadata, just wrapped in a Dolby Atmos format.
I mentioned that in my second point as you would need to have that external device (like a 4K UHD/Bluray player) decode Atmos Dolby Digital Plus into LPCM.
wrote:The problem with Dolby Digital Plus Atmos is you can't change it to a Linear PCM format. You can reencode Dolby Digital Plus, but not when it has Atmos metadata. (..)
As far as I'm aware, no other streaming device does this such as the Amazon Fire TV or Roku as they all use Dolby Digital Plus and if your TV can reencode audio as a Linear PCM 7.1 format, it won't do it for Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos.
Can you share your sources on this?
This sounds like a complete mess. I hope more information comes out for people but I don’t believe I’ll be upgrading my SB700 due to these unknown incompatibilities and also the asinine choice to still have no pass through HDMI capabilities.
I was very impressed by the tech demo in the store, I’m still loving my SB700 but after a few months I unfortunately started to see the compatibility issues and of course technical issues with the SB700.
I was going to go for the Sony HT-A700 which has full Dolby/DTS support and Hi-Res Audio support. But then I was just put off by the lack of flexibility with sound bars and just decided to go the receiver and speaker route.
I hope Bose clears things up for everyone as I feel blind sided by the SB700 and the customer experience
I checked the Apple TV 4K which outputs Dolby MAT over E-ARC when playing a Netflix movie in Dolby Atmos.
Does it mean the Apple TV 4K converts the DD Atmos audio stream to Dolby MAT (including Atmos metadata) before sending it to the receiver or Soundbar?
If so, I can imagine that TV manufacturers like LG or Samsung can apply this conversion also. The only downside might be that the conversion causes an audio delay which normally can be compensated in the settings menu.
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:But as it supports Atmos via LPCM, it won't really matter... unless your TV:
- doesn't have eARC
- can't decode & convert other formats to LPCM 7.1/Atmos LPCM 7.1
- can't pass through LPCM 7.1/Atmos LPCM 7.1
Technically, it does matter.
Although Linear PCM will be the cleanest audio, you still need support for codecs which matter such as Dolby Digital Plus. Dolby Digital has only been left on the soundbar as a way to gain surround sound through the optical connection. But DTS and other 7.1 solutions can be reencoded as LPCM 7.1 which is why they were dropped.(..)
The only way around this is to use a source device such as the Apple TV which can take the audio directly from the streaming app and present it in Dolby MAT which is technically Linear PCM 7.1 with Atmos metadata, just wrapped in a Dolby Atmos format.
I mentioned that in my second point as you would need to have that external device (like a 4K UHD/Bluray player) decode Atmos Dolby Digital Plus into LPCM.
wrote:The problem with Dolby Digital Plus Atmos is you can't change it to a Linear PCM format. You can reencode Dolby Digital Plus, but not when it has Atmos metadata. (..)
As far as I'm aware, no other streaming device does this such as the Amazon Fire TV or Roku as they all use Dolby Digital Plus and if your TV can reencode audio as a Linear PCM 7.1 format, it won't do it for Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos.
Can you share your sources on this?
That's my point exactly, which is where you're making a mistake. Linear PCM does not support Dolby Atmos, which means you can't reencode Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos into a Linear PCM format using a Blu-Ray or your TV. It's static and fixed.
If you've got a few days to spare, you can read all of this on the Dolby Developer website, but I will break it down for you to know the significant bits. I know all of this because I work in audio.
Dolby Atmos is metadata, not a codec which means it can lay on top of any audio signal as long as you can wrap it correctly in the audio codec such as Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD. Unfortunately, Atmos can not exist on its own, so Linear PCM can't support it as it only has eight channels of analogue audio. So there is no stream for metadata.
Streaming Services or TV channels such as Netflix or Disney use Dolby Digital Plus as the bandwidth is much smaller at 768kbps when you compare it to Dolby Digital at a maximum of 640kbps. Therefore, it has no real impact on the service or the user to add that small amount of data.
Dolby TrueHD is mainly Blu-Ray only because the bandwidth with Dolby Atmos can range up to 18000kbps depending on how lossless the audio is. Although we're in 2021 and most internet connections are hitting gigabit speeds, services would realistically not handle an extra 16mbps of internet connection on top of a 4K stream which is usually around 25mbps. It's half of another 4K stream and costs money.
Dolby invented MAT mainly for gaming on PC. It's a way to place the Dolby Atmos metadata on top of the Linear PCM analogue audio. So it's Linear PCM with Dolby Atmos but wrapped in Dolby MAT, which allows it to travel together to a receiver. The Xbox One and Series X|S now support this, and Apple TV does too.
I believe Apple TV gets around this by having the streaming service offer the Dolby Digital audio and Atmos metadata separately, which allows them to decode the Dolby Digital audio into Linear PCM and then pack it into Dolby MAT with the Atmos metadata. Why they do this over just supporting Dolby Digital Plus is beyond me, but Apple TV has always been Pro-Linear PCM and prefers to output this over using compressed formats.
Any receiver that supports Linear PCM and Dolby Atmos should automatically support Dolby MAT. Because of this, many older receivers will show LPCM or LPCM/Atmos on them instead of Dolby MAT.
Breakdown Points.
Regarding your last point, does it mean that TV manufacturers like Samsung or LG, do not support Dolby MAT? I mean that when I would run the Netflix app from the TV, the TV will always output as DD with Atmos? There is no way the TV can do the conversion to Dolby MAT like an Apple TV would do?
If this is the case then everybody is obliged to buy an Apple TV 4K to have Dolby Atmos output working on their new Bose Soundbar 900 when using any of the streaming services like Netflix.
I hope that Bose can give more clarification on this topic……
wrote:
Regarding your last point, does it mean that TV manufacturers like Samsung or LG, do not support Dolby MAT? I mean that when I would run the Netflix app from the TV, the TV will always output as DD with Atmos? There is no way the TV can do the conversion to Dolby MAT like an Apple TV would do?
If this is the case then everybody is obliged to buy an Apple TV 4K to have Dolby Atmos output working on their new Bose Soundbar 900 when using any of the streaming services like Netflix.
I hope that Bose can give more clarification on this topic……
Correct. Most TVs with eARC will support Dolby MAT as long as they support Linear PCM and Dolby Atmos. In reality, TVs should be able to pass through any format even if they don't support it. That was the whole point with eARC. However, there are some rare cases, such as with Samsung, where they like to try and mix their own audio into the HDMI audio and don't support certain formats such as DTS.
With my Sony TV, I know that if I enable eARC, it literally becomes a direct passthrough from the HDMI or streaming application on the TV. I lose all the notification chimes, beeping through the menu, etc. But because of this, it will literally pass through any audio I have from my source to the receiver.
But to answer your point. As of right now, only the Apple TV will encode Dolby MAT from a streaming service such as Netflix. Anything else such as Amazon Fire, your TV, I even think the Xbox does it too even though it can use Dolby MAT for gaming, will use Dolby Digital Plus as this is the direct audio that Netflix, Disney , etc. offers with their video.
How Apple gets around this, I have no idea. But I think it's more down to a force of hand. When they supported Dolby Atmos, they decided to use Dolby MAT and left it down to the developers. As they have a strong fanbase, it's a matter of that the developer has no choice. They either do it Apple way or no way.
thanks for your clear explanation.
it actually makes the Soundbar 900 useless wrt Atmos unless you spend another 200USD for an Apple TV 4K.
Who is still using Blu-ray? Streaming is the future. Physical media, like Blu-ray, will disappear in the end.
I hope that Bose will add DD in the near future through a firmware update….